ECS ADIZ: it's about sovereignty (CLOSED FOR COOLING OFF)

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Yodello

Junior Member
Registered Member
You are in no position to lecture anyone of civil discussion.
Read you last post boy. Who is everyone?
The world does not recognize PRC's claim and the only way to make it a legal dispute is either PRC lodge a claim to ICJ or seize it by military force closing any chance of the global society accepting PRC's claim.

From an Asian perspective, Japan has lost all respect. It has turned into a nation of whiners, turning to its master, the USA, at the sign of every little trouble, and always inviting Uncle Sam to poke its nose into East Asia. Japans double standard can be seen from its reluctance to join the AIIB, which would benefit all Asian nations. While Japan was a rich and developed country for a long time, it did very littel to help develop other Asian nations, which China is currently doing. It had been punching above its weight due to the sole support and unmitigated glorification from the West. Japan has become a number troublemaker in Asia and I hope it is put in its place, soon.
 

Daniel707

Junior Member
Registered Member
In 1885, the Japanese Governor of Okinawa Prefecture,
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, petitioned the Meiji government, asking that it take formal control of the islands.

However,
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, the Japanese Minister of Foreign Affairs, commented that the islands lay near to the border area with the Qing empire and that they had been given Chinese names.
He also cited an article in a Chinese newspaper that had previously claimed that Japan was occupying islands off China's coast.
Inoue was concerned that if Japan proceeded to erect a landmark stating its claim to the islands, it would make the Qing empire suspicious.

Following Inoue's advice,
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, the Minister of the Interior, turned down the request to incorporate the islands, insisting that this matter should not be "revealed to the news media".

Very Informative Video about China and Japan Relation from Ancient times until this day, and History about Diayou Islands.

 

Blackstone

Brigadier
The SF treaty also says Japan is four islands. Why is the Japanese going around conquering islands that don't belong to them like awaji? And anything south of Kyushu?

After all, as part of the victors we certainly didn't all agree Japan should have them.

I think as the winner of the pacific war, USA should inherit all those other islands that Japan claims outside of the four islands. And any other islands that Japan took by aggression from before ww2 returned to rightful owners.

Maybe bring back Ezo republic for hokkaido.
The real problem Japan currently faces isn't its temerity to lie about rightful Diaoyu sovereignty, or the extremely unhelpful US neutrality dictated by terms of the San Francisco Peace Treaty. Japan's real problem is China now has the immense comprehensive national power and the undeterred political will to recover stolen land, without firing a shot.

China's ECS ADIZ is fait accompli, and there's nothing Japan can do to reverse it. China's Coast Guard regularly patrols Diaoyu waterways, and its Air Force conducts routine patrols over the area. Going forward, China's power on the ECS in general and Diaoyu in specific will grow much faster than Japan.

Japan is running out of time to keep its ill gotten land, and it knows it only too well. But, what can it do? It can't win a shooting war with China, so that option is out. But, if Japan stays the course, then China's build up over the next two or three decades will be so overwhelming, it wouldn't matter what Japan do or don't do.

What about the United States? Didn't both Obama and Trump promise to protect Japan from China, including Diaoyu? The answer is don't bet on it. I say that because China doesn't need war to win back Diaoyu, and should Japan starts a shooting war, America has the perfect excuse to wash its hands of the sordid affair and let Japan stew in the juices of its own folly.

Japan has no good options, because peace favors China and war would end it even faster. That's why it is fearful, desperate, and grasping at straws.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
You are in no position to lecture anyone of civil discussion.
Read you last post boy. Who is everyone?
The world does not recognize PRC's claim and the only way to make it a legal dispute is either PRC lodge a claim to ICJ or seize it by military force closing any chance of the global society accepting PRC's claim.

well, well, well @SamuraiBlue ...... the truths hurt you so much I suppose :p

Thats why please read other history books, not only from Japanese textbooks ... I don't blame you really ;) .. you don't know what you don't know ... you only know what you know ... unfortunately you only know from Japanese textbooks ... sad ... very sad
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
From an Asian perspective, Japan has lost all respect. It has turned into a nation of whiners, turning to its master, the USA, at the sign of every little trouble, and always inviting Uncle Sam to poke its nose into East Asia. Japans double standard can be seen from its reluctance to join the AIIB, which would benefit all Asian nations. While Japan was a rich and developed country for a long time, it did very littel to help develop other Asian nations, which China is currently doing. It had been punching above its weight due to the sole support and unmitigated glorification from the West. Japan has become a number troublemaker in Asia and I hope it is put in its place, soon.
Ohhh boy, talk about ignorance talking.
Try looking up on how much Japan spent in ODA within Asia and come back to this topic shall we?
Japan had also been deeply involved in established ADB and have injected funds to various needing nations from the mid 60's.
AIIB is basically trying to do the same which will help other nations but Japan has it's hands full already thank you.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Ohhh boy, talk about ignorance talking.
Try looking up on how much Japan spent in ODA within Asia and come back to this topic shall we?
Japan had also been deeply involved in established ADB and have injected funds to various needing nations from the mid 60's.
AIIB is basically trying to do the same which will help other nations but Japan has it's hands full already thank you.

It has previously noted that the ADB was fat and lazy until the AIIB appeared, at which point it suddenly found billions more for investment and speeded up decision-making remarkably.

And it does look like the AIIB will be a better run development bank. References below

"At their meeting, the head of the Asian Development Bank, Takehiko Nakao, noted that the Chinese-led institution would not have a similar board. Mr. Jin responded: “Your board is a disaster,” according to a participant in the meeting."

-New York Times

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"Under its guidelines, the AIIB can only fund projects open to companies from all countries, while the ADB restricts participation to bidders from its member nations."

-Financial Times London

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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
The real problem Japan currently faces isn't its temerity to lie about rightful Diaoyu sovereignty, or the extremely unhelpful US neutrality dictated by terms of the San Francisco Peace Treaty. Japan's real problem is China now has the immense comprehensive national power and the undeterred political will to recover stolen land, without firing a shot.

China's ECS ADIZ is fait accompli, and there's nothing Japan can do to reverse it. China's Coast Guard regularly patrols Diaoyu waterways, and its Air Force conducts routine patrols over the area. Going forward, China's power on the ECS in general and Diaoyu in specific will grow much faster than Japan.

Japan is running out of time to keep its ill gotten land, and it knows it only too well. But, what can it do? It can't win a shooting war with China, so that option is out. But, if Japan stays the course, then China's build up over the next two or three decades will be so overwhelming, it wouldn't matter what Japan do or don't do.

What about the United States? Didn't both Obama and Trump promise to protect Japan from China, including Diaoyu? The answer is don't bet on it. I say that because China doesn't need war to win back Diaoyu, and should Japan starts a shooting war, America has the perfect excuse to wash its hands of the sordid affair and let Japan stew in the juices of its own folly.

Japan has no good options, because peace favors China and war would end it even faster. That's why it is fearful, desperate, and grasping at straws.

Yup

It's why Shintaro Ishihara (a favourite of the neo-con/conservative/right-wing ) forced the government nationalisation of the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands when he was Governor of Tokyo.

He's on the public record in a newspaper article saying that a wealthy developed China cannot help but dominate Japan, which would be 10x smaller in terms of population and also economic/industrial heft. There would be no need for China to resort to military action to get what it wants, whatever that may be in the future.

So China's strategy should be to avoid any sort of outright war (even if it can win) and concentrate on economic development and the hundreds of millions of still poor peasants.
 
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