East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

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Equation

Lieutenant General
Actually this would lead us to believe the exact opposite, NO responsible airman would endanger another aircrew, in a transport type aircraft, full of technicians and console operators, who would all die if this aircraft lost control. and the idea in some later posts that he did that to keep the P-8 in sight, show a further lack of understanding of the physics involved. We could equate the action to a cop wearing his gun, and a gangbanger waving his gun around and pointing it at people, two distinctly different actions, by two distinctly type of individuals. One under complete control, and another about to loose control?

What was the "cop" doing going near a "gang banger" sovereign territory in the first place? That example of analogy don't make sense. You're automatically assume the (P-8) is the "cop" therefore holds the moral ground, meanwhile the "gangbanger" is China flanker. When in reality the flanker was there to protect his homeland from possible threats. Yes he might tag a little harder and differently, but endangering the perpetrator, not at all. The only one complaining because a lost of face are the (P-8) crew.
 

Brumby

Major
Blame the intruder for instigating the matter in the first place.

It is international airspace. Each party has to exercise responsible behaviour or else it might go down a path no one wants to see or can control. Intrusion implies illegal entry and that has already been debated extensively.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
It is international airspace. Each party has to exercise responsible behaviour or else it might go down a path no one wants to see or can control. Intrusion implies illegal entry and that has already been debated extensively.

I'm not arguing about that. My argument is how about stop spying near someone's territory therefore one can avoid ANY mishap at all? How hard is that?
 
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
What was the "cop" doing going near a "gang banger" sovereign territory in the first place? That example of analogy don't make sense. You're automatically assume the (P-8) is the "cop" therefore holds the moral ground, meanwhile the "gangbanger" is China flanker. When in reality the flanker was there to protect his homeland from possible threats. Yes he might tag a little harder and differently, but endangering the perpetrator, not at all. The only one complaining because a lost of face are the (P-8) crew.

No professional airman makes that type of intercept, the goofy Russians, sure, flying your rudder through the P-3 is great fun for the numb nog, and yes they are "out there" at airshows as well.... The P-8 belongs to the most Disciplined Naval Force on the Planet, steady course, steady cruising altitude, in international airspace. They are decidedly NOT a danger to anyone, they are gathering intelligence, they are not a danger to Hainan island, they are NOT a danger to any Chinese, Russian, Australian, France, or UK submarine, they are NOT harassing the little Flanker driver. So yes they are Law Enforcement. They are checking things out, and rattling the chains at 135 miles, not 20 feet, maybe you ought to get your yardstick out and do some measuring..... The US has the most disciplined military in the world, an F-18 pilot who placed a Chinese aircrew in danger, on purpose, would be grounded, would loose his commission, would likely be in the brig, would be a dishonorably discharged, ex Naval Aviator. The fact that the Chinese Govt has issued a denial of the action, tell us they know how off base it was, but that does not change the facts.

I would admit that the BHO administrations ham handed handling of security, for instance at Benghazi, has emboldened those who may not care for the oversight of their activities, but I would discourage anyone from assuming this is emblematic of any weakness or lack of resolve in the US military...... oh and the P-8 crew hasn't lost face, they continued their mission, but are complaining about the undisciplined, unprofessional airmanship, that placed their personnel and aircraft in jeopardy. that is all

and let me make clear, I am talking about this particular intercept on that particular day, and similar incidents by other "hot dogs" or govts being provocative and encouraging stupidity. I am not condemning the intercepts in general, nor the Chinese Govt in particular, they spy on us too????? So What????? we got nothin to hide????? what we are doing is legal and smart, no excuses, NO APOLOGIES!
 
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Janiz

Senior Member
That example of analogy don't make sense. You're automatically assume the (P-8) is the "cop" therefore holds the moral ground, meanwhile the "gangbanger" is China flanker. When in reality the flanker was there to protect his homeland from possible threats.
Yeah, that P-8 aircraft could have dropped 15 atomic bombs on the Chinese bases... ***
Yeah but when the Japanese are hypocrites about such things and you see no protests from the US and others who point the finger at China, that's becomes moot. The US was quiet about Japanese stunts so China isn't going to much listen.
If I remember well China complained that Japanese aircraft got, reportedly, 30m close to Chinese one...
trust me, seven years in the military, i know exactly how things work.
And what and w were you doing there may I ask?
But how do you know for sure that's the exact flight path taken by the Chinese fighter pilot intercepting the P-8?
Because that's what happened once over the East China Sea.
 

PikeCowboy

Junior Member
At the end of the day, the objective of the PLANAF is to reduce the frequency of USN missions around Hainan, following around the P8 at a gentle comfortable distance simply won't achieve that - you might as well as just stay home.

Regarding the moral side of this incident, there's a perfectly suitable Chinese vernacular: "你不仁别怪我不义" which roughly translates to <if you're not virtuous then please do not blame me for being dishonourable.>

Is it friendly for the P8 to spy on Chinese bases? Obviously not. Is it legal? Many people say it is and I'll take their words for it.
Is it friendly for the J11 to harass the P8? Obviously not. Is it legal? I don't think there's a clear cut law against it.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
If I remember well China complained that Japanese aircraft got, reportedly, 30m close to Chinese one.

Those pics and video... it was not 30 meters away. It was reported to be 30ft not 30meters. Pretty much the same distance the Japanese were complaining.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The P-8 incident off of Hainan was not involved with the Chinese ADIZ that is the subject of this thread.

Discussion about it has been allowed, but all sides have been thoroughly discussed now.

So let's get back on topic.

Any further talk about this incident will be removed here.

Thanks.
 
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