Does Taiwan Need An MBT?

utelore

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Does the ROC need an MBT? Yes.
Is it a deal breaker to defeat the PRC? no
I think a delivery of F-15 or more F-16 with good BVR missile's and updated Anti ship cruise missiles would be more helpfull. If the PRC cant get to the island then a MBT is a mute point. If the PRC gets to the Island then things change a bit.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Another reason an MBT would be nice is that it would force the PLAN to tax its already limited amphibious capability. Having a large force of MBTs as a threat to the beachead requires the PLAN to bring more tanks and anti tank weapons to the island, which means less spots on transports for other things. Just a thought.

Here's what I think the ROCA would need to do/have in the event of a war to win.

-Of course, a convincing armoured force. Reasons already explained.
-Enough costal defence troops to cover pretty much the whoe China-facing coast of Taiwan. They would also have to be well trained and motivated enough so that they could stand up to the prospect of certain eventual defeat. (The costal bunkers, etc. WILL be overrun.)
-Enough troops based around the country so that landings by paratroopers could be quickly attacked. National Guard-type units, backed up with a rapid reaction unit, like an armoured brigade, could fufill this role.
-Good enough communications and transport that the maximum amount of force could be brought to bear on the landing beacheads with teh first 48 hours, preferably within the first 24.
-The commander must recognize the brief, golden window of time in which ROC troops will have numerical superiority against the landed PLA troops and will be concentrated enough to wipe them out.

An MBT is a Critical part of that equation.
 

sumdud

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Taiwan and Israel? Isn't Israel good tank country? They've retired the M-48, but still have the M60s. (If I am right, the M48s have some sort of fuel reliability problem.)

Thanks for the article, It basicly said what i'm saying, that Taiwan realizes the need of tanks even when facing defensive warfare. It also pointed out that ROCA is well avere of the backwardness of it's tank fleet. The article mentioned Leopards(II assume) which are quite enough what Taiwan needs.

Not Leopard 2. A big tank like the Leopard will never work well in Taiwan. It's (google Earth) half urban and half hills. In the urban, a smaller tank will hide better and will be able to access more roads. As for hills, they are just not tank country.
(Hasn't the Leopard 2 brought enough trouble over there?;))

Zergling meant the CM-32, the wheeled AFV. (Anyone know if the CM-32's mobility problems have been solved yet? Last time it tested, it couldn't U-turn in most roads, and can't climb either.)

And I agree on retiring the M41 also.
And that the 105mm is probably enough.
 

Delphi84

New Member
VIP Professional
:roll: Well from wat I see Taiwan needs to either upgrade the existing M60 MBT to the Sabra2 equivalent, or some form of MBT hanging around the weight of 40-50 tons.

I personally think Taiwan does not need huge numbers of MBTs. Instead it should invest on a serious, credible IFV tacked platform. Firstly, no doubt wheels give slightly higher on the road mobility, but consider damaged roads or out-field type of roads, the tracks are more advantaged. Another thing is tracked vehicles have a lower profile than wheel types, thus less chances of bcoming easy meat of anti-tank rifle infantry.
Furthermore, bcos most of the tanks moving a shore is mainly type63A amphibious light tanks of PT-76 origins. A chain cannon of 30mm will probabily do the trick. Plus some other variants carrying perhaps ATGM, u get a quite comprehensive AT defense. Furthermore, IFV are smaller and cheaper per unit cost, thus they are more nimble in urban and jungle terrain.

From wat I noe, Taiwan is some wat like a sub tropics type of terrain, dense vegetation, high rainfall during monsoon season. Plus lots of mountains. The forested terrains are some wad like Singapore. Thus it would not be wise to buy a too heavy MBT like the Leo or Abrams, as they might get bogged down by muddy, thick foilages. Instead, I advocate they should get something around 30 tonnes, with a 120mm gun like the thunderbolt demonstrator, to achieve good mobility and fire power. Unlike some critics on previous post, claiming the M41D has no use in future battles, thats where they bcome usefully, as infantry fire support vehicles, when they advance Just like here, where the main armoured element is actually the Veri VERI OLD AMX13-SM1 light tanks!!:( :D :p
 

The_Zergling

Junior Member
I'd expect fighting to be mostly in the city so vegetation wouldn't be a problem, however while you won't find many forests in or near the potential battlegrounds (I'm assuming Taichung, Taipei, Kaohshiung, etc) there are many rice paddies... basically only leaving open highways and normal roads.

A heavy tank definitely will not be very useful in Taiwan. For one thing, most of the urban roads actually aren't capable of supporting the "superheavies" of 40~50 tons. I wouldn't expect tanks to be doing ANY fighting at all in the mountains, but then again I would actually expect China not to really care about troops retreating to the mountains because sooner or later they'll have to return to the lowgrounds for munitions and food. (This is assuming China has air superiority)

So definitely, IFVs for the city, tanks to repel landings or to be used as mobile artillery.

Even if China could succesfully land heavy armor, it's hard to say how useful they would be, if they can't move around easily. (Seriously. The roads can't take the weight. At least that's what I've heard from my Army pals, you can judge the accuracy of their claims yourselves.)
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Article on CM32 from last year. Highlights:
* 853 units will be produced
* ROCA wants both 105mm and 155mm gun variants
* Anti-air vairant will be equipped with 2-4 SAM and 40mm "Sky Target" anti-air gun
* Anti-air variant will have CS/MPQ-78 fire control/radar (45km search, can lock on 64 targets), they hope to use it against missiles in the future
* Other variants include commander, NBC detection unit, etc.
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台灣首創彈砲合一防空砲車,雲豹8X8輪型甲車今成軍將生產853輛。
2005-01-11

(記者洪哲政∮台北報導)國產的雲豹8X8輪型甲車今日正式成軍,據國防部生產計畫顯示,該型甲車總計將生產853輛,其中砲車構型依陸軍要求搭載 105、155公厘主砲;防空構型則因應中國威脅,規劃整合中科院「捷羚」或劍2陸射型防空飛彈,同時配備軍備局202廠生產的40公厘「天鏢」防空快砲,首創純台灣血統「彈砲合一」的野戰防空砲車。

雲豹甲車今日將在南投集集兵整中心舉行成軍典禮,由陳水扁總統親臨主持,校閱3輛雲豹原型車。國防部官員透露,雲豹甲車有砲車、運兵車與防空構型,其中還包括射擊指揮車、核生化偵檢車等,未來總計約生產853輛。

官員說,目前雲豹甲車用於運兵車的構型已然成熟,原本兵整中心依國外8輪甲車構型,完成整合25公厘砲塔的原型車,但陸軍見狀卻提出生產105或155公厘主砲車的要求,所以這方面的戰術需求還在克服;但已完成圖上作業者,則是以雲豹為載台,形成「彈砲合一」的野戰防空飛彈砲車。

官員說,雲豹的防空構型,計畫以中科院「捷羚」系統或劍2陸射型防空飛彈,同時整合軍備局202廠生產的40公厘「天鏢」防空快砲,成為「彈砲合一」防空飛彈砲車。

官員表示,美、俄、中國都研發有類似構型服役,只是內容都是以防空飛彈為主,砲則是以小口徑的25、20公厘旋轉機砲或四管50機槍,形成近迫系統,嚴格來說應是「機彈合一」。但雲豹的防空構型則是以國產大口徑的40公厘防空快砲為砲塔,四周配備2到4枚國產防空飛彈,血統純台灣,國外少見這樣的配置。

這款防空砲車計畫整合中科院CS/MPQ-78近空射控雷達,該型雷達搜索功率達45公里,同時可鎖定64個來襲目標,具備野戰預警及火力指管功能,「彈砲混合」的戰力,可望成為反巡弋飛彈利器。

至於運兵車款的部分,官員說,由於雲豹甲車內部乘坐空間除去車長、駕駛,只有6名全副武裝的兵士,所以運兵遠距機動的功能,仍將以傳統戰術輪車和履帶裝甲車為主,不會因為生產雲豹甲車配賦部隊使用,而需要改變國軍人員編制上的班之編成。 .....2005-01-11【台灣日報】
 
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