Does Taiwan Need An MBT?

Taiwan's armour is extremely lacking. The ROC Army has M-60s, a number of which have M-48 chassis, M-48s, M-64s and a Taiwanese variant of the M-48known as the Cm-12 or CM-11. IMO, the ROCs armoured force would be swept from the field by even small numbers of Type 98s and Type 99s that got ashore. The ROC severely needs, at least in small numbers, a modern MBT to contain a PLA beachead and slow their advance inland. Of course, this is probably a controversial opinion. Undoubtedly, the ROCs main chance for survival in a confrontation with China is its Navy and Air Force. But even if small amounts of Chinese troops made it ashore, they would be able to cause problems gain territoy because Taiwan lacks the armour to stop them, so Taiwan needs at least a small force of modern tanks.

Would foreign procurement be an option? Could Taiwan produce its own indigenously? Personally I think that the tank would be heavy and survivable, with a high per-unit cost and all the gadgets and gizmos, because Taiwan would only have to defend a small area and so it would not need many. Thus the tank could be expensive. A model would be the Merkava, or even he Tiger in WWII.

Remember the topic is an MBT for the ROC, so lets not let this slide into a Cross-straits invasion scenario. I don't want any of this:

SDF Member 1: Taiwan no needs teh MBT. The Us will just save them.:nana: :nana:

SDF Member 2: Then China would just use assansins mace!:china:

SDF Member 1: The PLANs ASW suxs!

SDF Member 2: IF US help Taiwan Russia will just nuke their @ss.!

Click to expand...

Sooner or later, if SIno-US relations do not improve, US is goin to sell taiwan some sorta MBT, maybe the M1. I dont know, Taiwan's army seems quite up to date, at this point, taiwan doesnt need a MBT. China is doing all it can to make peace with taiwan, PRC does not want war, taiwan is not at any threat at this point so I dont think they need a MBT.

renmin said:

Sooner or later if SIno-US relations do not improve, US is goin to sell taiwan some sorta MBT, maybe the M1. I dont know, Taiwan's army seems quite up to date, at this point, taiwan doesnt need a MBT. China is doing all it can to make peace with taiwan, PRC does not want war, taiwan is not at any threat at this point so I dont think they need a MBT.

Click to expand...

Screw the Abrams, Taiwan should just go for the M-60 2000 upgrade! Turkey already did that!

Good thread.

IMO, in a real war scenario, China would not deploy type 99s and 96s as part of the initail landing forces. These tanks would most likely come in after the invasion force has made sginifigant gains, as extra firepower. The 96s and 99s are big are can only be hauled a few at a time, which is why I beleive the PLA will save them for later.

Taiwan's primary armor opponent is the 63A tank, and a few vaireties of IFV.
The 63A presents a formidable foe in terms of firepower, but anti-tank missles and return fire can easily defeat the 63A's relatively weak armor. No need for an M1.

Im hearing that the new IFV ZBD-97 has been deployed with the Amphibious Mechanized Divisions in nanjing nad Guangzhou, which face the strait. This might pose a problem

Sure that Taiwan needs MBT. Since I agree whit MIGleader that China would not deploy MBT whit initial landing force (because of insufficient amphibious assets) Taiwan would need tanks to counter PLAN marine Type63A and ZBD-97 IFV.

Now to achieve that goal Taiwan could modernize its M60s to Sabra standard. That would greatly improve firepower and armor protection thus providing better survivability to Taiwanese armor forces (and at significantly lower cost then M1 purchase). They could also make 105mm gun version of theres new wheeled IFV (something similar to 105mm gun armed Stryker).

That way they could make combination of mobile rapid reaction troops (similar to US Stryker brigades) and modernized M60s for heavy support… Besides even standard M60a3 is superior compared to PRC light amphibious tanks and IFV units( mainly because better armor).

MIGleader said:

Good thread.

IMO, in a real war scenario, China would not deploy type 99s and 96s as part of the initail landing forces. These tanks would most likely come in after the invasion force has made sginifigant gains, as extra firepower. The 96s and 99s are big are can only be hauled a few at a time, which is why I beleive the PLA will save them for later.

Taiwan's primary armor opponent is the 63A tank, and a few vaireties of IFV.
The 63A presents a formidable foe in terms of firepower, but anti-tank missles and return fire can easily defeat the 63A's relatively weak armor. No need for an M1.

Im hearing that the new IFV ZBD-97 has been deployed with the Amphibious Mechanized Divisions in nanjing nad Guangzhou, which face the strait. This might pose a problem

Click to expand...

very true, a airbase of some sort would have to be set up for something as big as a T-98 to be rolled in. It just isnt eficciant to carry them by ship. Light armour divisions would proabably come first.

Personally I believe that Taiwan could use the following:

-An all-purpose IFV, like the Stryker, armed with Anti-tank missles, or a gun.
-Upgraded M60s to bring the bulk of their tank force to a level at which they could handle Type 63s and Chinese IFVs.
-A small number of MBTs, as insurance. These would form the basis of local conterattacks against Chinese landings and could handle the small numbers of MBTs the PLA would put ashore. A good canidate fo this would be the PT-91 Twardy, as Poland has a limited relationship with China and the Twardy is not that expensive. Plus I think that he Twardy looks cool.

I myself am not so sure. Personaly, I think that the U.S will at least sugest importing an older tank type to Taiwan. (M60 upgrade or one of the past M1 models) Either that, or the Taiwanese will just wing it as best they can, assuming that the China gets controll of a beachhead and can mount a staging area to offload their T-98/99 tanks.

What sort of terain is in Taiwan anyway? The only ones I can think of are Urban, and that naturaly causes problems for tank mobility and cover.

I find this all very funny. Taiwan gets new tanks to counter PLA tanks, and in turn, the PLA will deploy anti-tank vehicles to counter the taiwanese tanks.

Tanks are not the only way for Taiwan to hit PLA tanks.
There are several good options, all which are cheaper but just as deadly.

1. Equip Cobras with HOT missles. Very deadly, and takes advantage of taiwans existing cobra fleet

2. equip light vehicles with TOW missle launchers. This is imilar to idea one, but based on land

3. Develop a new chasis as the basis of a 105mm anti-tank vehicle. Use this in combination with tanks.

Another advantage these options have compared to more tanks is that these weapons are less vulnerable to Chinese tank-destroyers. At only 19 tonnes, the pl-02 tank destroyer is airdroppable, posing a big challenge to taiwanese tanks.

Mig, you seem to think that war is just like rock-paper-scissors. The fact that tanks can be destroyed and the PLA has the means to destroy them does not mean that Taiwan does not need them. Anti-tank launchers cannot lead counterattacks that would be necessary to contain and delay the PLAs advance. Besides, the PLA has no dedicated tank killing air platforms. It has nothing equivalent to the SU-25 of the A-10. It does not have an anti-tank helicopter either. One last thing. Having MBTs is a benefit because it forces China to deploy other assests like the PL-02, more Type 99s, etc. to counter them. That taxes the PLAN and the PLAAFs already limited transport capability, slowing the critical timetable for invasion. Basically it raises the price of business for the PLA so to speak. But I do agree with you on that infantry, light vehicles and helicopters would play a large role in Taiwan's defence, because it is not economical or practical for Taiwan to have armoured divisions.

Kamphwagen-Much of Taiwan is a mix of flat countryside and plains, urban areas and highways. Especially the area facing the Strait. That's perfect tanks country.