Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

  • Thread starter Deleted member 15887
  • Start date

steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
The market and economy is vastly different in China of 2021 as it was in 2015.

How many Chinese brand did you know or use in 2015?

It is a different scale and model entirely. While it is true that there was more growth in the US market from 2015 to 2021, it would appear that since about SEP-OCT 2020, the smart US money has been quietly selling their US equity high and moving to undervalued Chinese equity.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
How many Chinese brand did you know or use in 2015?
For me at least it's pretty much now as it was in 2015. I acknowledge that some people may not have heard of (for example) Huawei in 2015 and only did recently because of bust-ups over 5G. That said Huawei did have more exposure than you might have thought it did in previous years because 5G proposals go way back. There was even a time when the UK was prepared to use Huawei on 5G, albeit in a limited way.

While it is true that there was more growth in the US market from 2015 to 2021, it would appear that since about SEP-OCT 2020, the smart US money has been quietly selling their US equity high and moving to undervalued Chinese equity.

If that was the case then you'd have seen a decline in the US stock exchanges values. Looking at Nasdaq as an example the value there's no evidence of a drop in the last 6 months. I'm sure many people have been tempted to try investing in Chinese markets, but that's most likely going to be people spreading their equity around (unless they're stupid and put all their eggs in one basket).

Biden isn't going to change policy just because there are people that invest in China.
 

weig2000

Captain
For me at least it's pretty much now as it was in 2015. I acknowledge that some people may not have heard of (for example) Huawei in 2015 and only did recently because of bust-ups over 5G. That said Huawei did have more exposure than you might have thought it did in previous years because 5G proposals go way back. There was even a time when the UK was prepared to use Huawei on 5G, albeit in a limited way.

Trump's trade-tech-financial war against China alone has lifted brand awareness of many Chinese companies and the national brand of China beyond most people's wildest dream, before we even account for the solid growth internationally of many Chinese companies on their own accounts.

Huawei is obviously the best and best-known example. For all its presumed importance, 5G was a rather obscure technology known only to people inside the telecom industry. After 2 plus years of war against Huawei, so many people have come to know that Huawei is the world's leading telecom equipment company and led the competitors by at least 18-24 months technology-wise in 5G, one of most strategically important technology in the 21st century according to none other than the US government. The testimonials from the global telecom executives, including those from UK, India, Germany, etc. are proof-positive. The funny thing was that a professor with close relationship with Chinese government at the prestigious Peking University disclosed that even the Chinese government didn't know Huawei was so advanced in technology until Trump administration and foreign companies one after another warned/praised how advanced/dangerous Huawei was.

Huawei's smartphone brand & sales also got huge boost from Trump sanctions and bans. Before 2018, Huawei's smartphone was fighting with a bunch of Chinese brands for attention and market-share. It took off since 2018, the year Trump ban started, to become one of the three premium brands in smartphone or indeed electronic devices, along with Apple and Samsung. While technology and design played big parts in it, Trump ban simply boosted the brand and awareness. Many people had struggled with pronouncing Huawei, now it's become effortless. LOL.

In addition, Huawei's semiconductor design house HiSilicon, otherwise a mysterious existence inside Huawei, also become much better known to the outside world. It's got to show Huawei's technology is built on heavy investment in R&D and talents. And Huawei has consistently been among the top-five biggest corporate spenders in R&D in the world, which is a solid refute to the accusation that Huawei has been stealing technologies from others.

Huawei's same city competitor ZTE also got a boost in brand and awareness due to its own Trump ban and the reflected glow from Huawei.

Another great example is, of course, TikTok. Although TikTok was quite popular among teens in the US and around the world, it was much less known by the mainstream media and the boomer parents of the TikTok teens. Trump's war against it had changed it all, and it has become mainstream and ever more popular. People got to know that TikTok can be addictive, and has many me-to imitators among the US social media companies. Best of all, people has gotten to know that TikTok is powered by advanced AI, developed in and run from China.

If Huawei demonstrates the hardware and hard power side of China's technology, then TikTok shows the software and soft power side of Chinese tech.

And, we should not forget DJI, leading drrone-maker in a consumer tech sector almost entirely created and dominate by a Chinese private company based in Shenzhen, China's answer to the Silicon Valley. After repeated bans and restrictions, including being put on the now infamous Entity List, DJI took them all in stride and has become ever more popular.

There are much more examples, including WeChar, Alibaba, Tencent, SMIC. There are many other less known brands among general population but have gained ground within the sub-sectors of their targeted markets.

All these example get to show that China's tech sector is vast in size, technologically advanced, and comprehensive in scope. They've got the US government feeling threatened. Together, they have also changed the national brand and image of China as a technology powerhouse, versus the previous image of China as a country of assembly lines and copy-cats. They have positioned China as the rival tech superpower to the US's preeminence, thus ushering in the era of a bipolar world in the consciousness of people in the world.

And that's why China in 2021 is vastly different from that in 2015. Even its adversaries and competitors admit that. Trump administration's policies against China have played a role in accelerating the process.
 

steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
For me at least it's pretty much now as it was in 2015. I acknowledge that some people may not have heard of (for example) Huawei in 2015 and only did recently because of bust-ups over 5G. That said Huawei did have more exposure than you might have thought it did in previous years because 5G proposals go way back. There was even a time when the UK was prepared to use Huawei on 5G, albeit in a limited way.



If that was the case then you'd have seen a decline in the US stock exchanges values. Looking at Nasdaq as an example the value there's no evidence of a drop in the last 6 months. I'm sure many people have been tempted to try investing in Chinese markets, but that's most likely going to be people spreading their equity around (unless they're stupid and put all their eggs in one basket).

Biden isn't going to change policy just because there are people that invest in China.

Have you looked at who the investors are behind Nio, TikTok, TenCent and Xiaomi?

You will find IDG and Sequoia Capital.

The institutional investors are moving vast sums around independent of NYSE.

Also, a lot of Chinese companies are listed as ADR and or listed as Cayman Island and HK companies.

The retail investors or the average Joe are still swayed by demonization of China in the news and will be late to the party, as always.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not talking about Huawai, but more like
- Xiaomi which makes my kid's Kart, or
- Tineco, which makes the vacuums in my house, or
- LocTek which makes my monitor mount on my desk
- Or DJI which made my kids Robomaster coding toy
- 6 years ago, my monitor was a Dell, now it is a Acer Predator.
- 6 years ago, my laptop was also a Dell, now its a Lenovo.
- 6 years ago, I had a Whirlpool fridge, now I have a GE Monogram (which is owned by Haier), I also have a second Haier in my garage.
 
Last edited:

steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
Have you looked at who the investors are behind Nio, TikTok, TenCent and Xiaomi?

You will find IDG and Sequoia Capital.

The institutional investors are moving vast sums around independent of NYSE.

Also, a lot of Chinese companies are listed as ADR and or listed as Cayman Island and HK companies.

The retail investors or the average Joe are still swayed by demonization of China in the news and will be late to the party, as always.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not talking about Huawai, but more like
- Xiaomi which makes my kid's Kart, or
- Tineco, which makes the vacuums in my house, or
- LocTek which makes my monitor mount on my desk
- Or DJI which made my kids Robomaster coding toy
- 6 years ago, my monitor was a Dell, now it is a Acer Predator.
- 6 years ago, my laptop was also a Dell, now its a Lenovo.
- 6 years ago, I had a Whirlpool fridge, now I have a GE Monogram (which is owned by Haier), I also have a second Haier in my garage.
BTW, the self served registers at the CVS in the Pentagon accepts ..........Alipay.
 

escobar

Brigadier
A new China Task Force at DoD to review all U.S. policy toward China and how "we will meet the China challenge" and "win the competition in the future." Hope PLA also have a similar and permanent task and announces it.

Et5I09zXAAUrQ1s.jpg
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
The US is going to have to sort of this situation if it wants cooperation from Europe.

Either Huawei is taken off the Entity list or European companies are allowed to sell to China.

---

European tech accuses US of using sanctions to shut it out of China

Business says EU groups are losing out on licences to sell to blacklisted Chinese companies


European tech executives and diplomats are accusing the US of using its sanctions regime to shut them out of the Chinese market while offering exemptions for American companies.

Over the past two years, the US has imposed aggressive sanctions on Chinese companies such as Huawei and, as of Friday, the chipmaker SMIC, which have prevented them from buying most US-made technologies.

But one senior European executive said the sanctions had created an “America First” trade policy, involving exemptions for US companies while groups from other countries are cut out of the Chinese market. “So far, US companies have been given licences to supply Huawei, while European suppliers cannot,” said the executive, who asked not to be named.

Many European businesses that produce chips and chipmaking equipment are affected by American sanctions because they rely on US intellectual property.

A second European tech executive said their company had once been stopped from supplying components to Chinese buyers because of suspicions that they could be used for military purposes. But the market for the components was quickly filled by US vendors selling through middlemen, the executive claimed.


Read more
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
The US is going to have to sort of this situation if it wants cooperation from Europe.

Either Huawei is taken off the Entity list or European companies are allowed to sell to China.

---

European tech accuses US of using sanctions to shut it out of China

Business says EU groups are losing out on licences to sell to blacklisted Chinese companies


European tech executives and diplomats are accusing the US of using its sanctions regime to shut them out of the Chinese market while offering exemptions for American companies.

Over the past two years, the US has imposed aggressive sanctions on Chinese companies such as Huawei and, as of Friday, the chipmaker SMIC, which have prevented them from buying most US-made technologies.

But one senior European executive said the sanctions had created an “America First” trade policy, involving exemptions for US companies while groups from other countries are cut out of the Chinese market. “So far, US companies have been given licences to supply Huawei, while European suppliers cannot,” said the executive, who asked not to be named.

Many European businesses that produce chips and chipmaking equipment are affected by American sanctions because they rely on US intellectual property.

A second European tech executive said their company had once been stopped from supplying components to Chinese buyers because of suspicions that they could be used for military purposes. But the market for the components was quickly filled by US vendors selling through middlemen, the executive claimed.


Read more
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
I think sooner or later a disaster of epic proportions are going to hit the USA like never before and in that time the world will not only turn there backs on America, but they many even hasten the downfall to ensure that no one will ever get in the way of progress with wars and sanctions. The USA is going to be an example to all of the world of what happens when a nation pushes the world too far and thinks that no consequences will come
 
Top