In some sectors like automobile, large aircraft, large ship construction it is impossible not to have state aid unless you want the sector to collapse. Even in the so called free market economy of the USA you had Obama finance the sector with "Cash for Clunkers" and George W Bush gave loans to GM and Crysler autos when the economy tanked and people stopped buying cars. Boeing gets lots of state support for plant construction or having manufacturing jobs on the state plus government and military contracts. In the case of an emerging economy, which China still is, state support is even more paramount. Until the Chinese economy reaches a state where it can compete on the wider market it does not make sense to drop state support.
You are a huge dove, Wu Sangui (or is it Wang Jianwei). A little less with licking American balls please. Industrial policy should be a Chinese internal affairs and not up to negotiation. We should decide our own destiny and not let American and their cronies decide how we form our economy. industry, culture and more. Do you also want to negotiate with them how we have sex and consume our food. Bizarre, how dare you to take these words in your mouth, idiot.
You do understand that China still has an obligation to fulfill by being a WTO member, right? That means rules, policies, and regulations that explicitly discriminate against foreign companies (like the MIC 2025 target that sought to get rid of foreign suppliers by 2049) could be illegal under the WTO. Of course, you might argue that the U.S. violate WTO rules all the time. Well the WTO ruled all three tranches of U.S. tariffs on China to be illegal. Now, if you still have some faith in international organizations rather than naked offensive realism, maybe it is time to give folks with cooler heads a chance, especially during the start of the Biden Administration. Or, if I may ask you in another way, how would a worsening U.S.-China Relations benefit you?
Yeah, China has all sort of obligations for doves like you to fullfill western wishes, Hanjian. When they escalate tensions then you will run to them like a panicked dog offering them all sort of concessions to bring down the temperature to acceptable levels and rinse repeat. People like you should absolutely be kept out of the internal policy of China. You will slowly give them all concessions they wish on a plate. I prefer a China that chooses it's own destiny. Doves and cowards like you are a bigger danger to China's future than any tension with the US and it's cronies.
Last edited:
PiSigma
"the engineer"
Last I checked Europe and US had obligations under WTO to grant China market economy status and it haven't happened yet. So they don't meet obligations, then no need for China to meet it either. Rules are for chumps with no power to protect themselves.
- I don't think that you can interpret that "MIC 2025 is against WTO rules". The point is "I want to reduce reliance on foreign supplier" does NOT mean "I will block market entrance of foreign product on trading ground". That is a huge difference. Blocking by trade barrier like tariffs may be against WTO rule, but not buying due to better domestic product is my free will. In your interpretation, you are forcing import onto China by forbidding China's domestic industry to grow. That is no where in the book of WTO.
- Faith in international organization and realism have no contradiction, it is not mutually exclusive. It would be naive to think it is.
- Who said China should please Biden Administration? China is not a member state of USA.
- Worsening US-China relation benefit nobody, you got that right. But you asked the wrong person. You should have asked Clinton, Bush Jr. , Obama, and Trump first. Maintaining a good bilateral relationship need BOTH sides' action, not just China.
I tend to agree with the poster Josh Luo.
If the people you do not like, they want to negotiate, well then ...
You can negotiate. Two sides sit down and negotiate. Often nothing ever comes out of those negotiations. Just ask Trump the last four years.
There are two sides at a negotiation table, not one.
It is the ancient history. During the Korean War, both sides were negotiating, while the fighting was still going on. Remember that the war itself lasted three years. The negotiations lasted two years I think. Nothing really changed on the ground.
In the Vietnam War, the Americans and the North Vietnamese negotiated in Geneva for at least 5 years or more. All the while the supply chain came from Russia and China all the way down the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
Today, there is a trade war, and there is a tech war, and the Americans want negotiations.
That's fine.
If the people you do not like, they want to negotiate, well then ...
You can negotiate. Two sides sit down and negotiate. Often nothing ever comes out of those negotiations. Just ask Trump the last four years.
There are two sides at a negotiation table, not one.
It is the ancient history. During the Korean War, both sides were negotiating, while the fighting was still going on. Remember that the war itself lasted three years. The negotiations lasted two years I think. Nothing really changed on the ground.
In the Vietnam War, the Americans and the North Vietnamese negotiated in Geneva for at least 5 years or more. All the while the supply chain came from Russia and China all the way down the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
Today, there is a trade war, and there is a tech war, and the Americans want negotiations.
That's fine.
All this fake crying of liberals for Chinas SOE's makes me sick. In every capitalist state, either big or small enterprises are been subsidized by state money. Taxpayers money. Even bailing them out when failing (especially big enterprises), the invisible hand of the market is been replaced by the loving hand of the state when in need or just in a regular manner like here in EU. Every year there are EU programmes that subsidizing private bussinesses with even 100% of the capital needed for maintaining and expand operations. From private banking sector to agriculture (agriculture is understandable because these products have very short added value chain). Capitalists are in love with taxpayers money but hate being taxed. Thats why the invented all the tax free paradises in the heart of Europe(Switzerland, Lichtenstein. Luxemburg, Andorra, Cyprus) and then in tiny islands in the middle of nowhere. In short their main problem is political and is called the public ownership. They want everything for them not for for the people.
Hi KYli,
I'm reading and watching the comments from different articles and blogs, Man I see trouble ahead, hope sanity prevail. Trump supporters believe the election is rigged BIG TIME, that's 35% of American population, a huge number, and there's Rush Limbaugh advocating state independence, Reminiscent of event before the US civil war. Trump himself is destroying the American Institution with lies, deceit and conspiracies theory that will only exacerbate already tense situation. I really counting on the majority patriotic American to stand up, stop this insanity before it got out of hand and save your country. Ohh one more thing, All of this I blame the MAIN STREAM MEDIA as a culprit, they created Trump, now its legacy is permeate within a significant portion of US society.
Last edited: