CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[ACuriousPLAFan]

High-resolution images of the stern.

Based on the surrounding items, my instinct tells me that Fujian is docked to the right side of the larger fitting out basin, as shown by the red circle.


Although, only a satellite imagery could confirm my speculation. MAXAR, where the hell are you now when we need you??!

 

[by78]

Another image from the front.

 

[Paulo R Siqueira]

Come now, I think PLAN and even hobbyist like us all understand that having a lift on the port side is for redundancy reasons. The point of Shilao demonstrating many CVV proposals was to show that nearly all of them insists on a lift on the port side, even for designs that call for two lifts. In the book he was showing there was only one proposal that had two lifts, both on the starboard side:
View attachment 91066
Two lifts and two catapults.

The other proposals all had various number of lifts and catapults in different combinations, all of them had a port side lift:
View attachment 91067
View attachment 91068
It's clear that USN thinks this redundancy is very important, even for small carriers with two lifts. But just because USN weighs this requirement very highly does not mean PLAN do so too, and in the case of Fujian here were the decision was made to stick with two lifts we can then infer that PLAN believes more deck space is actually more important for them.

Carrier 003 is based on Soviet designs from the 1970s.

 

[Michaelsinodef]

In my opinion, I don't think this part tells the whole story. How did they determine that China is 10 years ahead? If China mastered MVDC in the early 2000s then according to this interpretation the West should already have had mature MVDC technology, which as far as I know is not the case.

Really though? How sure are you it's not being used in some ships?

I used to be convinced that China had the lead on MVDC, but through the years my conviction has faded away. If they had this technology 20 years ago why haven't we seen any PLAN combatants employ it? In the meantime, the West has been building full electric warships with MVAC grids since 2003 (Type 45 destroyer) and LVDC warships since 2011 (Zumwalt). Not to mention the multitude of commercial LVDC ships designed and built in the West in the last 15 years.

And China have build 0 ships with electric propulsion? Give me a fucking break.

At this rate, by the time China fields a MVDC ship the advantage over the West will be far less than the alleged 10 years. How depressing.

Doubt, moreover it's quite likely that MV DC is being used for the EM catapults on the 003, which is most likely a step up/better than what the Ford is using.

 

[by78]

Also, I kinda have forgotten to actually congratulate China and the PLA(N) on their carrier 18 福建舰 (Fujian), despite being very active here (including yesterday) and even viewing the Guancha stream yesterday lol.

So congratulations!


And to kinda celebrate, here's a rough breakdown of the video about Ma Weimin (link:

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)

---

It's mostly about Ma Weimin (who, from where, how he got to where he is today etc. as well as the various medals/honors he have gotten from his various inventions with his teams).

Ma Weimin, 57 years old (from JiangSu, moreover from a 'normal' family), currently a 院士 (

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) which is basically a very high position for scholars/academics in China, and he became that when he was only 41 years old.

Some of his medals/honors/awards are: (google translate in parenthesis)
- 国家科技进步奖一等奖，2项 (First prize of National Science and Technology Progress Award, 2 times)
- 国家技术发明奖三等奖，2项 (Third prize of the National Technology Invention Award, 2 times)
- 军队科技进步奖一等奖，4项 (First Prize of Military Science and Technology Progress Award, 4 times)
- 荣立个人一等功和二等功，各2次 (Received personal first-class merit and second-class merit, 2 times each)
- 何梁利科学与技术成就奖 (Ho Leung Lee Science and Technology Achievement Award)
- 首届“十佳全国优秀科技工作者”等奖励 (The first "Top Ten National Outstanding Scientific and Technological Workers" award)

Besides that, he is very dedicated to science as well as teaching people, and believes in that the science/innovations needs to be in the hands of Chinese/China (so that stuff like the high tect EUV ban doesn't happen as an example, not mentioned in the video, but basically an example of what he means).

As for how he got to where he is today, he originally didn't think he would get involved with the military since from his childhood he was very innovative/'free spirited' and he thought the life in the military wouldn't suit him (discipline and all that).

He then actually entered a military school (not 100% sure why, maybe he was conscripted? In the 80s the PLA was something like 6 million I think? So it might actually had quite a lot of conscripts and fewer volunteers. Or it could be the science he was interesting in or could apply for was only in a military school/军校).
He did get more accustomed to life in 'the military', but when he graduated and came to his job position (工作岗位) he found that he didn't have a lot of time for innovation/research/science, but his old teacher/mentor Zhang Gaifan(张盖凡) had him return back to university (in exchange for a number of graduates lol) and had him continue his student life (continueing for masters(研究生), the school was 海军工程大学 which I think should be translated to "The Navy engineering university", so he probs wasn't conscripted but had to choose this school for some reason which is military related).

In the early 90s, the PLA for their conventional subs had to import some tech for their subs (十二相整流发电机系统, google translate gives Twelve-phase rectifier generator system), in the negotiations with that foreign company, Ma Weimin proposed that their system had a problems with 固有震荡 (inherent oscillation), but the foreign company was indifferent and said their product had no such problem.
Ma weimin is stubborn/doesn't back down/admint defeat, so he along with his team, then proceed to spend 1800 days (about 5 years) to test, record and analyse stuff.
And was then able to innovate/make “带整流负载的多相同步电机稳定装置” (Multiphase Synchronous Motor Stabilizer with Rectified Load) and made “带稳定绕组的多相整流发电机” (Multiphase Rectifier Generator with Stabilizing Winding), which fixed the issue of 固有震荡, and in the face of reality the company then had to buy the patent/rights from Ma Weimin.
This innovation granted Ma Weimin with 国家科技进步奖一等奖 (I believe in 2001, or maybe it was becoming a 院士 that happend in 2001).

In 2002, after 8 years of work, he along with his team created the world first 交直流双绕组发电机系统 (AC/DC Dual Winding Generator System), which quickly got into production, and since then, the submarines of China has had a 'chinese heart' (engine). (this is talked about around 8:30)

Continueing on, he and his team also worked on many more innovations and key areas/technology, such as the 3兆瓦级高速感应电机系统 (3 MW Class High Speed Induction Motor System), which was something before the US, and in a number of steps, have allowed China to leap frog past everyone else in various areas of electric technology (specifially in the propulsion of ships I believe it was).

In 2003, Ma Weimin along with his team, ventured into trying to make “船舰综合电力技术国防科技重点实验室” (National Defense Science and Technology Key Laboratory of Ship Integrated Power Technology), and he was the first in the world to propose as well as actually make and implement 中压直流综合电力系统 (Medium Voltage DC Integrated Power System), technology which is ahead of the world by about 10 years, and which is also something such as the US, have pivoted to/are researching.
This technology, has basically allowed China to go from being behind, to being in front, when it comes to the technological area of ship propulsion.

Since then, with his various teams, he has been a vital part of pushing chinese weapons to be all eletric (电气化变革).

In 2009, after only 2 years, he led one of his teams and using the technology in the area of ship propulsion, was able to to make 大功率风力发电变流器 (High power wind power converter) which is used in windmills, and it's specs were better than existed at the time, and it has a vital importance and role in the continued push for renewables for China.

In 2010, Ma Weimin along with his, created the “国家能源新能源接入设备研发实验中心” (think it's Wuhan New Energy? The video has a shot of that at around 14:30), and the aim of this is to break monopolies of technology (in regards to energy and renewables) that the west has.

Since then, besides researching and innovating, a core goal of Ma Weimin has been to foster the new generation of scientist and students as well as create more teams for innovations.
From the original 5 people (of Ma Weimin and 4 other), the team has grown to be more than 300 people (I suspect there might be 1 big overall team, but people gets divided into smaller teams tackling more specific problems, not fully sure though).

Since then, lots of talents have grown from under his mentorship, and there's many teams were the it's the 80s and after that are the backbone, with many teams at an average age of 35.

In July of 2015, the PLAN gave Ma Weimin and his team the honorary title of “创新强军马伟明模范团队” and he got the medal from the country “国家科技进步奖创新团队奖” as well as the “集体一等功” twice.

And well, it turns out the 军队科技进步奖一等奖 is a medal he and his team(s) have gotten a total of 17 (!) times and also 9 times 二等奖.

This year (not sure which year, the video just say this year), the medal of “八一勋章” was created in the PLA and Ma Weimin got such a medal.

TLDR: Ma Weimin is fucking chad, and a vital person that has allowed China to come so far it has in the areas of electrical technology. This video also hasn't mentioned anything about EM catapults, cannons etc. So it most likely doesn't have everything that he has been involved in.

Also, the 八一勋章 was apparantly made in 2017, so this video was maybe made around that time? Although it seems like it might have only recently been published (at least that is the case for the video in the link).

Tbh, I was kinda even a bit unsure if I should post a translation of this, but then again, the west (US) should very much know the existence of Ma Weimin, so probably doesn't matter if I post this, not to mention, this probably has gone on chinese tv as well.

In my opinion, I don't think this part tells the whole story. How did they determine that China is 10 years ahead? If China mastered MVDC in the early 2000s then according to this interpretation the West should already have had mature MVDC technology, which as far as I know is not the case.

I used to be convinced that China had the lead on MVDC, but through the years my conviction has faded away. If they had this technology 20 years ago why haven't we seen any PLAN combatants employ it? In the meantime, the West has been building full electric warships with MVAC grids since 2003 (Type 45 destroyer) and LVDC warships since 2011 (Zumwalt). Not to mention the multitude of commercial LVDC ships designed and built in the West in the last 15 years.

At this rate, by the time China fields a MVDC ship the advantage over the West will be far less than the alleged 10 years. How depressing.

I think you may have mis-read @Michaelsinodef's post. It says that beginning in 2003, Ma and his team ventured into developing MVDC system for ships, not that his team had developed the system by 2003.

 

[taxiya]

Guangxi, while not technically a province, is also provincial level and has a coastline. So future name candidates would be Hebei, Tianjin, Jiangsu, Shanghai, Zhejiang, Guangdong, Guangxi, and Hainan.

There is no rule saying that only coastal provinces can be used to name carrier. The rule is "capital ships including battle ships, cruisers and carriers are to be named after provincial level administration areas". That is 34 names, of course China don't need 34 carriers, it is unlikely any battle ships, nor cruisers, so coastal provinces may have the advantage, but not exclusive privilege.

 

[Michaelsinodef]

I think you may have mis-read @Michaelsinodef's post. It says that beginning in 2003, Ma and his team ventured into developing MVDC system for ships, not that his team had developed the system by 2003.

ah yea that was my bad.

Pretty sure the video said 8 years for that, so around 2011, which I think kinda aligns with around when there were news/rumours about electric propulsion for ships.

 

[taxiya]

In my opinion, I don't think this part tells the whole story. How did they determine that China is 10 years ahead?

Ma Weiming began his research in MDVC 10 years before USN began their research.

If China mastered MVDC in the early 2000s

Ma Weiming started building his research program in 2003. China did not master MVDC in 2003.

then according to this interpretation the West should already have had mature MVDC technology, which as far as I know is not the case.

You are assuming the west is constantly 10 years behind China. What if the gap is growing and now the west is 20 years behind? That is another way to explain why the west has not mastered MVDC yet.

Your logic remind me of some Indian "expert" saying that since China made Tiangong station in x number of years, so India will see its space station in x number of years from now.

I used to be convinced that China had the lead on MVDC, but through the years my conviction has faded away. If they had this technology 20 years ago why haven't we seen any PLAN combatants employ it? In the meantime, the West has been building full electric warships with MVAC grids since 2003 (Type 45 destroyer) and LVDC warships since 2011 (Zumwalt).

Zumwalt is NOT LVDC. This has been clarified in a dedicated thread in this forum where a diagram of Zumwalt is shown.

Zumwalt has a DC bus for hotel power, NOT for driving the ship. The driving motors are on a MVAC grid. Since propulsion takes 70% electricity generated, only propulsion system can be used to define the grid type.

Not to mention the multitude of commercial LVDC ships designed and built in the West in the last 15 years.

Commercial LVDC means nothing in military application. Electric propulsion in ships has been used since early 1900s, it is nothing new. The unique requirement of IEPS in warships is the extreme fluctuating power demand that does not exist in commercial ships. Commercial ships cruise at a constant speed, it is more like moving a landing based power station to the sea. That is easy. From the experience of Type 45, UK has not mastered MVAC yet. We don't know much about USN since there are only two Zumwalt and they don't go around much.

At this rate, by the time China fields a MVDC ship the advantage over the West will be far less than the alleged 10 years. How depressing.

Again your assumption is that the west is reducing China's lead instead of falling further behind. That is totally up to individuals wish.

[addition]
Mastering MVDC 10 years ahead is different from installing MVDC on an operational warship 10 years ahead. We have seen the consequence of rushing MVAC on Type 45. One may gain the title of being the first, but there comes punishment for not doing it right and carefully testing it.

 

[Atomicfrog]

Wow that carrier launch turned this thread in fire ! It's sour vs excitement fest. We will see in the next 5 years how that new carrier will pass through his trials.

But right now we can be proud of what China achieved since the acquirement of four retired aircraft carriers for study in 1985. Quite a lot of big steps have been done since the naming of the Lioning in 2012 to that modern ship 10 years later.

 

[zxc136133849]