CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[Richard Santos]

The main physical limitation on likely service life of 001, 002, and 003 would be they will be the only boiler powered warship in PLAN, indeed they may become the only boiler powered ship of any kind under Chinese flag, before long. So they will likely be disproportionately expensive to support and maintain in another 2-3 decades.

 

[Lethe]

Exactly, 001 and 002 are still essentially brand new ships still, and have decades more service life in them. I fully expect both to be upgraded to EMCATs during their respective MLUs, which will massively boost the PLAN’s carrier fleet capabilities.

Fitting EM catapults at MLU would be a major engineering undertaking and at the end of the day would still leave PLAN with a vessel significantly less capable than a new-build carrier. The carriers would also be unavailable for a considerable length of time while being modified. It may or may not be a cost-effective undertaking. And if it doesn't happen, the vessels will be increasingly limited in their ability to operate the aviation capabilities that PLAN is investing in.

 

[Intrepid]

If the ships require catapults for drone capability, they will either be retired when the MLU arises or they will be given catapults.

 

[steve_rolfe]

Fitting EM catapults at MLU would be a major engineering undertaking and at the end of the day would still leave PLAN with a vessel significantly less capable than a new-build carrier. The carriers would also be unavailable for a considerable length of time while being modified. It may or may not be a cost-effective undertaking. And if it doesn't happen, the vessels will be increasingly limited in their ability to operate the aviation capabilities that PLAN is investing in.

I'am sure the PLAN would of taken all these matters into consideration, during the planning of their carrier fleet, But everyone has to start off somewhere, and considering the expense and massive man hours put into the builds of 001 & 002, i really can't see the PLAN off loading these vessels, just because they are not the latest design in carrier technology! They will be very useful assets for many years yet.

 

[davidau]

I'am sure the PLAN would of taken all these matters into consideration, during the planning of their carrier fleet, But everyone has to start off somewhere, and considering the expense and massive man hours put into the builds of 001 & 002, i really can't see the PLAN off loading these vessels, just because they are not the latest design in carrier technology! They will be very useful assets for many years yet.

001, 002 are well maintained by the crew, and shipyards. You don't spot a tiny bit of rust on the hull or elsewhere, unlike some other navies.

 

[kriss]

Fitting EM catapults at MLU would be a major engineering undertaking and at the end of the day would still leave PLAN with a vessel significantly less capable than a new-build carrier. The carriers would also be unavailable for a considerable length of time while being modified. It may or may not be a cost-effective undertaking. And if it doesn't happen, the vessels will be increasingly limited in their ability to operate the aviation capabilities that PLAN is investing in.

Having a catapult would also allow it to train pilots for other CATOBAR carriers. This alone would take majority of training/re-assimilating mission off of newer carriers allowing them to have more active time.

 

[Lethe]

I'am sure the PLAN would of taken all these matters into consideration, during the planning of their carrier fleet, But everyone has to start off somewhere, and considering the expense and massive man hours put into the builds of 001 & 002, i really can't see the PLAN off loading these vessels, just because they are not the latest design in carrier technology! They will be very useful assets for many years yet.

I suspect a lot of folks expressing sentiments like these are underestimating both the time and cost required to modify CV-16 and CV-17 for catapult operations. It could well be half the cost of a new 003-type carrier and take almost as long as it would to build a new 003. Add to this that operating costs would be similar over a defined period, and the case for take an existing carrier out of service for an extended period of time, modifying it, and then returning it to service begins to lose its appeal against the alternative of simply building more carriers, faster.

 

[Vincent Ang]

I suspect a lot of folks expressing sentiments like these are underestimating both the time and cost required to modify CV-16 and CV-17 for catapult operations. It could well be half the cost of a new 003-type carrier and take almost as long as it would to build a new 003. Add to this that operating costs would be similar over a defined period, and the case for take an existing carrier out of service for an extended period of time, modifying it, and then returning it to service begins to lose its appeal against the alternative of simply building more carriers, faster.

Perhaps 001 can have an island upgrade to the 002 type along with other modifications.

 

[kriss]

I suspect a lot of folks expressing sentiments like these are underestimating both the time and cost required to modify CV-16 and CV-17 for catapult operations. It could well be half the cost of a new 003-type carrier and take almost as long as it would to build a new 003. Add to this that operating costs would be similar over a defined period, and the case for take an existing carrier out of service for an extended period of time, modifying it, and then returning it to service begins to lose its appeal against the alternative of simply building more carriers, faster.

If it was considered for potential future upgrade in the design like space and wiring already built in there they wouldn't need to gut the ship open or have major structure change to add a catapult. If this it true I doubt the cost would be as high as for example "half of a new 003". OTOH even if this is not the case. In worst case scenario if it's proved too challenging and/or costly to do it properly. Unlike steam cat, with EMALS they can still commandeer part of hangar and maybe 1 or 2 ammunition lift like the railgun test ship if they just want a training carrier with catapult.

Since 16 and 17 would be made obsolete much quicker by newer design when they still have considerable service life left, it wouldn't be too out of a question even if it trade some of other performance characteristic for a catapult.

 

[iantsai]

I believe that China should build four 003 carriers before progressing to CVNs so as to generate a credible carrier force as rapidly and affordably as possible, but I wouldn't retire CV-16 at least until the first CVN came online.

Notional commissioning schedule...

CV-16 c. 2012
CV-17 c. 2019
CV-18 c. 2023
CV-19 c. 2026
CV-20 c. 2029
CV-21 c. 2032
CVN-22 c. 2035
CVN-23 c. 2039 (replaces CV-16 Liaoning)
CVN-24 c. 2043
CVN-25 c. 2047 (replaces CV-17 Shandong).

Then CV-17 will be decommissioned within 26 years, just serving for 28 years?