CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[nlalyst]

We've been over this


003 has a bulbous bow.
See the second picture in particular.
I'm not sure why this is still a topic of debate for you.
It's not like a bulbous bow is particularly advanced technology anyhow, and virtually all major PLAN ship types in recent years have bulbous bows, including 075 and 002.

CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

This is the PriFly: I doubt it. If the air officers on the Chinese carrier has responsibility for aircraft in the air near the carrier, then he will need a view of the final approach path to the angled landing deck. From that location, the view of the approach is blocked by the island.

www.sinodefenceforum.com

I suspect this is a question of semantics. Is a sonar dome a bulbous bow?

My understanding is that the two are not the same, and that's what I think @Richard Santos is hinting at: 003 has a sonar dome.

Take a look at this Frankenstein idea for a bulbous bow for Arleigh Burke class:

 

[Blitzo]

I suspect this is a question of semantics. Is a sonar dome a bulbous bow?

My understanding is that the two are not the same, and that's what I think @Richard Santos is hinting at.

Take a look at this Frankenstein idea for a bulbous bow for Arleigh Burke class:
View attachment 74694

Except is there any reason to think that the 003s bow bulge is anything other than a bulbous bow?

Not only based on the way it looks (again I refer to the second picture I posted in that previous reply) as it is virtually identical to bulbous bows on other large warships in the world like carriers and LHDs... but also in terms of common sense, given how many aircraft carriers of such a size exist in the world with a sonar in the bow?

Taken all that together, wouldn't the overwhelming null hypothesis to be to assume that the bow bulge is just a plain old bulbous bow, and that we would need evidence to suggest it was for a sonar??

 

[Richard Santos]

We've been over this


003 has a bulbous bow.
See the second picture in particular.
I'm not sure why this is still a topic of debate for you.
It's not like a bulbous bow is particularly advanced technology anyhow, and virtually all major PLAN ship types in recent years have bulbous bows, including 075 and 002.

CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

This is the PriFly: I doubt it. If the air officers on the Chinese carrier has responsibility for aircraft in the air near the carrier, then he will need a view of the final approach path to the angled landing deck. From that location, the view of the approach is blocked by the island.

www.sinodefenceforum.com

Your are barking up the wrong tree. I didn’t say she didn’t have a bulb. I said she didn't have a particular style of bulb depicted in the CG.

 

[Blitzo]

Your are barking up the wrong tree. I didn’t say she didn’t have a bulb. I said she didn't have a particular style of bulb depicted in the CG.

It looks pretty similar enough to me, correct in terms of overall length and proportions relative to the rest of the ship.

Frankly if you are arguing that it's not a perfect one to one representation to the bulbous bow that we've seen in pictures then you're picking at such an odd detail given the rest of the CGI has various minor differences from the rest of the ship's real form as well (minor flight deck difference geometry, weapons elevator placement).


Furthermore, in #6393 you suggested that the real 003 doesn't have a bulbous bow similar to that of the last members of the Nimitz class and that its bow is more similar to that of Kuznetsov/Liaoning.

I think the picture that I've been referring to continuously (pic 1 below, posted again for everyone's interest) shows demonstrably that the bulbous bow most definitely is significant, protruding and much closer to that of the configuration seen in the later Nimitz class hulls rather than that of Kuz/Liaoning.

Which in turn circles back to the CGI itself being a fair depiction of the real thing.


So no, I think I was very much barking up the right tree.

 

[nlalyst]

Except is there any reason to think that the 003s bow bulge is anything other than a bulbous bow?

Not only based on the way it looks (again I refer to the second picture I posted in that previous reply) as it is virtually identical to bulbous bows on other large warships in the world like carriers and LHDs... but also in terms of common sense, given how many aircraft carriers of such a size exist in the world with a sonar in the bow?

Taken all that together, wouldn't the overwhelming null hypothesis to be to assume that the bow bulge is just a plain old bulbous bow, and that we would need evidence to suggest it was for a sonar??

I find it difficult to draw conclusions from that grainy low contrast photo. Philosophically, I lean towards it being a bulbous bow as a gain in fuel efficiency seems more valuable than a bow sonar on a ship that prefers to steam at speeds that severely diminish the efficacy of a hull sonar in passive mode.

However, in terms of precedence, Liaoning and Shandong have a bow sonar, so I would rather pick that as my null hypothesis.

 

[Blitzo]

I find it difficult to draw conclusions from that grainy low contrast photo. Philosophically, I lean towards it being a bulbous bow as a gain in fuel efficiency seems more valuable than a bow sonar on a ship that prefers to steam at speeds that severely diminish the efficacy of a hull sonar in passive mode.

However, in terms of precedence, Liaoning and Shandong have a bow sonar, so I would rather pick that as my null hypothesis.

... Do they though?

Specifically, does Shandong have a bow sonar, because I've never seen any evidence or argument for it

 

[para80]

Looking at the picture Rick posted, I think its pretty evident there is a notable bow. How folks have dramas seeing it is not entirely clear (ha pun) to me, but each to their own I suppose.

 

[bustead]

Do we know anything about the defensive armaments yet? I assume it is HQ-10s and CIWS guns?

 

[iantsai]

Do we know anything about the defensive armaments yet? I assume it is HQ-10s and CIWS guns?

There could be no CIWS anymore. Even in Type 055, the number of CIWS turret is reduced to one. HQ-10 is proved to be more efficient than CIWS in minimizing the threat of the approaching warheads of destroyed guided weapons.

 

[Tam]

It looks pretty similar enough to me, correct in terms of overall length and proportions relative to the rest of the ship.

Frankly if you are arguing that it's not a perfect one to one representation to the bulbous bow that we've seen in pictures then you're picking at such an odd detail given the rest of the CGI has various minor differences from the rest of the ship's real form as well (minor flight deck difference geometry, weapons elevator placement).


Furthermore, in #6393 you suggested that the real 003 doesn't have a bulbous bow similar to that of the last members of the Nimitz class and that its bow is more similar to that of Kuznetsov/Liaoning.

I think the picture that I've been referring to continuously (pic 1 below, posted again for everyone's interest) shows demonstrably that the bulbous bow most definitely is significant, protruding and much closer to that of the configuration seen in the later Nimitz class hulls rather than that of Kuz/Liaoning.

Which in turn circles back to the CGI itself being a fair depiction of the real thing.


So no, I think I was very much barking up the right tree.




View attachment 74696

View attachment 74697

Bulb is like that of large full ships, with the loci at the top. Its similar to the 075's. Not a bow sonar however.

There are only two bow sonars used with the PLAN. One, which is universally used with the 056, 054, and 052 families. Two, which is introduced with the 055. We have seen this one on the 101 Nanchang launch ceremony and sometimes from 055s getting the bow sonar fitted south of 003's dock. The loci on both would be at the bottom. Both would be too small for this bulb.