CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[Deino]

Since the construction Is modular it could be that JNCX is building a second 003

and since work is going on at DL that’s where the final assembly could take place

so all of the above could be true

but the launch of 004 would be from DL

Surely Not - or at least IMO unlikely - since I cannot think they would ship the modules from JNCX for final assembly to Dalian.

So, either JNCX will directly built a second Type 003 and maybe Dalian starts with the next class (CVN ?) or Dalian will build the modules on their own.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Ndla2]

Kitty Hawk class had more power than Nimitz/Ford class: 280.000 PS vs. 260.000 PS or expressed in Speed 35 vs. 30 knots.

Thanks for the info. But i always thought that Nimitz class got around 35 knots top speed, but i maybe wrong.

 

[Arienai]

Surely not - or at least IMO unlikely - since I cannot think they would ship the modules from JNCX for final assembly to Dalian.

So, either JNCX will directly built a second Type 003 and maybe Dalian starts with the next class (CVN ?) or Dalian will build the modules on their own.

Just my 2 cents.

What fzgfzy says is both 003 (if there is indeed a second one) will be built by JNCX, and the first nuclear powered 004 will be built in Dalian once they are qualified to make nuclear powered ships.

I don't know why @ asif iqbal think the final assembly will be in Dalian cause that's certainly not what fzgfzy were saying here. And it's just not practical to move the super modules from Shanghai to Dalian. It's doable if they really want to, but why would you do that in the first place when JNCX already has the capability to do the final assembly? There's like 2000 kilometers between Shanghai and Dalian.

What fzgfzy said was module for the second 003 might be already under construction some where in Shanghai. "上海这事不是江南一家产分段的" means JNCX is not the only one producing super modules in Shanghai.

Again anything from fzgfzy should be taken with a grain of salt. I just think the final assembly for 003 won't be transfered to Dalian no matter what.

 

[Mt1701d]

Tbh... looking at the China’s aircraft carrier program so far I don’t think a second type 003 is likely to be currently under construction... and to be frank the original time line/frame of 6 aircraft carriers, 2 STOBAR and 4 CATOBAR, being built by China, if memory serves but I might be wrong on the years, by 2030/2035 was also somewhat ambitious and speculative at the time but still possible.

First of all, this is not a knock on China’s ability to construct aircraft carrier but merely an analysis based on the current progress of the carrier program. I would fully expect that the carrier construction program to accelerate after the first type 003 is commissioned, tested and provide a positive result, while the Liaoning provided a lot of initial and general operational experience, the construction of Shandong provided a lot of construction, structural as well as on going general operational experience, the construction and performance of Type 003 would be the measuring stick for PLAN future carriers and I would expect the PLAN to want to work out any kinks before committing to more. So I believe once the type 003 has been fully tested operationally we would then likely see the acceleration of the program at that point, for example the second type 003 if there will be a second or possibly simultaneous construction of a further iterations from type 003.

For cases of building ships in 2s... there would have been enough transferable experience from the predecessors of those classes of ships to make reasonable deductions of the systems and performance of the new class... but an aircraft carrier is still relatively new experience, with a new design as well and quite a significant investment of time and resources... especially now that there are unfamiliar systems to be tested and all that can be done with one test bed first, rather then committing such resources on multiple ships like what the Americans did with the Zumwalts only to find out the initial prediction were wrong. I just don’t think the PLAN would commit such resources until they have a reasonable assurance of the design or systems, which tests on the type 003 will provide for future reference.

 

[asif iqbal]

I think 10 years is good enough experience and China has shown that without any prior flat deck construction experience they can start from scratch and in break neck speed get a carrier built and launched

I mean the speed of the CV-17 proved that

March 2015 first blocked laid
End of 2016 the ship was almost structurally done
April 2017 it was launched

that's approx. 24 months to put together a 65,000 ton carrier, it was as if they had done it 10 times before text book construction work

now we have 003

Feb 2019 first blocks spotted
Dec 2020 by all means and purpose we can see the carrier outline only bow needs connection
Q2 2021 we could see the launch of 003 I predict it anyway take into account COVID delays

thats again 24+ months for a larger 85,000 ton carrier

now if we see 004 at DL end of this year Dec 2020
then by early 2023 China can launch 004

either way 003 launched in 2021 from JNCX + 004 launched in 2023 from DL

after the launch of 003 JNCX has 2-3 years to tool itself for a CVN 005 in 2024

and after launch of 004 DL has 2-3 years to tool itself for a CVN 006 in 2026

of course these 100,000 CVNs will take much much longer to construct and it will be into 2030s before they are launched maybe 005 can squeeze in late 2029

I dont see China letting up or slowing down its carrier construction if anything they will speed up

005+006 won't start in 2030s thats for sure definitely they will start this decade

 

[Tyler]

Now someone has expanded the chart to accommodate the second type 003 (Chinese version of wikipedia).

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[KYli]

Isn't it too early to make the change to Wiki. Even though it is likely and makes sense there is a second 003 but we haven't seem anything to make it official yet.

 

[Tam]

What fzgfzy says is both 003 (if there is indeed a second one) will be built by JNCX, and the first nuclear powered 004 will be built in Dalian once they are qualified to make nuclear powered ships.

I don't know why @ asif iqbal think the final assembly will be in Dalian cause that's certainly not what fzgfzy were saying here. And it's just not practical to move the super modules from Shanghai to Dalian. It's doable if they really want to, but why would you do that in the first place when JNCX already has the capability to do the final assembly? There's like 2000 kilometers between Shanghai and Dalian.

What fzgfzy said was module for the second 003 might be already under construction some where in Shanghai. "上海这事不是江南一家产分段的" means JNCX is not the only one producing super modules in Shanghai.

Again anything from fzgfzy should be taken with a grain of salt. I just think the final assembly for 003 won't be transfered to Dalian no matter what.

There are three shipyards in Changxian, all right next to each other: Jiangnan Shipyards, Hudong Zhonghua (their Changxian extension) and Shanghai Waigaoquiao Shipyards. All belonging to CSSC, now CSG. Not hard to imagine all three can be producing modules for the ship combined. Nearby Chongming island, you got Shanghai Shipyards and Huarun Dadong. Almost all the shipyards within the Shanghai metropolis proper has been closed and sold for real estate development, except for the Hudong Zhonghua site at the Huangpu river.

 

[by78]

Now someone has expanded the chart to accommodate the second type 003 (Chinese version of wikipedia).

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So? Are you gonna keep us updated everytime someone edits that Wiki article?

 

[gelgoog]

It was 'leaked' years ago that they were going to make two CATOBAR carriers of the conventional propulsion type and after those they would make nuclear powered carriers. So Type 004 should be similar to Type 003 and is likely under construction as is.
I don't know why you assume they'll wait until they test 003 to make the next carrier.

Also, the 2030 deadline if anything seems overly pessimistic considering they have already built the new construction facilities at Shanghai which is half the work and have the Type 003 already half built. I assume there will be a small delay while they evaluate 003/004 but I wouldn't be surprised if they were designing the successor ship already.

I think the political purge at the Dalian shipyards is the likely culprit for the delays in the construction of Type 004.
I suspect the original plan was to have a more conventional design built at Dalian with steam boilers and steam catapults as a backup. But given the high state of readiness of the EMALS catapult and China's advances with gas turbine propulsion it is quite likely they changed the plans. So that probably put the kibosh on things there.