CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[Deino]

Holy mackerel. If this is true, it would be absolutely be sensational. Looks like a convergence of plans? New WS15 engine on new fighter jets and additional carriers to land on. The pilot training must be in a frenzy.

I can only agree with @Intrepid ... even we all know how such big news are unveiled in China, and there is a high chance of being true that there's a second CATOBAR carrier under construction at Dalian, there so far is still NOTHING confirmed.

And how you come to the conclusion that this rumour is related to the WS-15 - which in fact is nowhere mentioned in any recent romours especially related to a 4th carrier - is beyond me. Quite to the contrary, there are in fact even NO recent rumours suggesting a navalised carrier-capable J-20 powered by WS-15 will appear anytime.

IMO we should all calm down, sit and wait, drink some good Chinese tea ... drink maybe even more until a module was spotted and only then I would say this rumour became a fact. All other speculations are nothing more than fan-boy's wet dreams.

Best,
Deino

 

[fatfreddy]

I can only agree with @Intrepid ... even we all know how such big news are unveiled in China, and there is a high chance of being true that there's a second CATOBAR carrier under construction at Dalian, there so far is still NOTHING confirmed.

And how you come to the conclusion that this rumour is related to the WS-15 - which in fact is nowhere mentioned in any recent romours especially related to a 4th carrier - is beyond me. Quite to the contrary, there are in fact even NO recent rumours suggesting a navalised carrier-capable J-20 powered by WS-15 will appear anytime.

IMO we should all calm down, sit and wait, drink some good Chinese tea ... drink maybe even more until a module was spotted and only then I would say this rumour became a fact. All other speculations are nothing more than fan-boy's wet dreams.

Best,
Deino

My speculation here as I read on another thread that WS15 would be ready in 2019. I assumed, perhaps unreasonably, that it would be mounted on all the new J15s. No it is not linked to the rumours but perhaps someone up there would have tied all this together.

 

[Deino]

My speculation here as I read on another thread that WS15 would be ready in 2019. I assumed, perhaps unreasonably, that it would be mounted on all the new J15s. No it is not linked to the rumours but perhaps someone up there would have tied all this together.

Pardon, but here you are either completely mis-informed or you were fooled by some nonsense sources.

No-one is linking the WS-15 to any future J-15 variant and that type will also surely never ever be ready in 2019, let alone in a naval variant.
The WS-15 is the dedicated engine developed - or should I say still in development - for the J-20 and given all reliable reports we know and even more in mind of the fact that they are just testing a WS-10-variant the WS-15 will at best appear by 202x - IMO 2025 most likely - at an operational J-20. And if the PLA naval aviation will ever get the J-20 is again another question.

So at best forget all these stories ...

 

[Daniel707]

Too impatient to post earlier rumors (they're all on Lucas Han's Weibo account), but there are some pretty important additions to what has been written above:

1. Both 003 and 004 are nuclear-powered (rumors point to a dual-core design, similar to the Nimitz/Ford-class vessels)
2. 003 (JNCX) might have 3 catapults and 004 (DL) might have 4 (a bit of interpretative license was used when deciphering the riddle, so take it with a grain of salt)
3. The technologies aboard the two vessels are very advanced

One of Lucas Han's rumors/riddles:

This Lucas also said,

For Type 003 AC #1 in Jiangnan Shipyard : Currently, in Shanghai, modular block farication is in progress. At the earliest, around November this year, assembly of these module blocks will commence.

For Type 003 AC #2 in Dalian Shipyard : In Dalian shipyard, work (steel cutting) commenced in May 2018 (see a few posts earlier). Spies (i.e. wall climbers) will be able to spot the module blocks after CV-16 Liaoning completes her maintenance works. Module block assembly will take place around August 2019.


Anyway, Let's relax, sit back, and wait for another months. We can see if his "leak" is true or not

nb : He also indicate that Type 003 AC #1 and #2 is Nuclear Powered EMALS Aircraft Carrier.
(who knows? we need to be patient to know the unknown)

 

[mys_721tx]

This Lucas also said,

For Type 003 AC #1 in Jiangnan Shipyard : Currently, in Shanghai, modular block farication is in progress. At the earliest, around November this year, assembly of these module blocks will commence.

For Type 003 AC #2 in Dalian Shipyard : In Dalian shipyard, work (steel cutting) commenced in May 2018 (see a few posts earlier). Spies (i.e. wall climbers) will be able to spot the module blocks after CV-16 Liaoning completes her maintenance works. Module block assembly will take place around August 2019.


Anyway, Let's relax, sit back, and wait for another months. We can see if his "leak" is true or not

nb : He also indicate that Type 003 AC #1 and #2 is Nuclear Powered EMALS Aircraft Carrier.
(who knows? we need to be patient to know the unknown)

A-ha! I missed it! "核姿马尔" may very well mean Nuclear-EMALS. However, if that is the case, "华尔马特" must also fit certain technical aspect of the Kuzetsov-class. Other than "华" might mean STOBAR, I cannot think of anything else relevant.

 

[weig2000]

No, it is exactly what we expect: the 3rd Chinese carrier is a conventionally powered CATOBAR and will be build at Shanghai, the 4th Chinese carrier is of the same type and will be build at Dalian.

That 003 is being built in JNCX is close to be confirmed, unofficially; that 004 has started in Dalian recently is relatively late-breaking news, but not entirely shocking. But what is shocking and, IMO, difficult to believe, is what Lucas claims that both 003 and 004 are going to be nuclear-powered.

 

[Intrepid]

But what is shocking and, IMO, difficult to believe, is what Lucas claims that both 003 and 004 are going to be nuclear-powered.

The solution is simple: don't care, it will not happen.

 

[Mirabo]

I want to throw in my two cents and take a step back, because everything we've heard lately has been rather confusing. So, I'd like to break things down a little.

Here is what we basically know is confirmed, or near-certain:

• There is a 003 large module at Jiangnan, module assembly soon
• A second 003 is under construction at Dalian, progress unknown
• The two 003s will use the same propulsion type
• The two 003s will use EM catapults

Here's what we're not very sure about:

• Whether the 003s will be nuclear or conventional - Erring on the safe side, both conventional is more likely
• Whether both 003s will have 3 catapults, or if one will have 3 and the other with 4

What I find interesting is how the two shipyards will use different methods of construction for the same class of ship. While Jiangnan is employing modular construction like how QE was built, Dalian will use the more traditional method constructing from the keel-up like how Ford was built.

Considering how Jiangnan is offloading as much as 40% of the first 003's workload to other shipyards in Shanghai (according to earlier rumors), as well as their use of modular construction (relatively rapid final assembly), plus factoring in the head start, I think it's safe to suggest that the Jiangnan 003's hull construction will be done much sooner than Dalian's, maybe by as much as 12-18 months.

So, I'm going to reach for a wild guess here. I believe that, by the time Dalian's 003 launches, maybe around early 2021, we'll already see 004's modules being prepared in Jiangnan. My fundamental reasoning is simple: Time and time again, we've been caught off guard by the sheer pace of China's carrier program. If you apply the same timeline from 002 -> 003 as to 003 -> 004, then you'll reach the same conclusion. I don't think it's an unreasonable suggestion.

Anyway, I digress. The next few months will be interesting as we see China's first CATOBAR take shape in Jiangnan. Regardless of which propulsion type the 003 will use, a new class of supercarriers is on the horizon.

 

[Blitzo]

I want to throw in my two cents and take a step back, because everything we've heard lately has been rather confusing. So, I'd like to break things down a little.

Here is what we basically know is confirmed, or near-certain:

• There is a 003 large module at Jiangnan, module assembly soon
• A second 003 is under construction at Dalian, progress unknown
• The two 003s will use the same propulsion type
• The two 003s will use EM catapults

Here's what we're not very sure about:

• Whether the 003s will be nuclear or conventional - Erring on the safe side, both conventional is more likely
• Whether both 003s will have 3 catapults, or if one will have 3 and the other with 4

What I find interesting is how the two shipyards will use different methods of construction for the same class of ship. While Jiangnan is employing modular construction like how QE was built, Dalian will use the more traditional method constructing from the keel-up like how Ford was built.

Considering how Jiangnan is offloading as much as 40% of the first 003's workload to other shipyards in Shanghai (according to earlier rumors), as well as their use of modular construction (relatively rapid final assembly), plus factoring in the head start, I think it's safe to suggest that the Jiangnan 003's hull construction will be done much sooner than Dalian's, maybe by as much as 12-18 months.

So, I'm going to reach for a wild guess here. I believe that, by the time Dalian's 003 launches, maybe around early 2021, we'll already see 004's modules being prepared in Jiangnan. My fundamental reasoning is simple: Time and time again, we've been caught off guard by the sheer pace of China's carrier program. If you apply the same timeline from 002 -> 003 as to 003 -> 004, then you'll reach the same conclusion. I don't think it's an unreasonable suggestion.

Anyway, I digress. The next few months will be interesting as we see China's first CATOBAR take shape in Jiangnan. Regardless of which propulsion type the 003 will use, a new class of supercarriers is on the horizon.

I am quite impressed and surprised at how much faster the construction of the CATOBAR carriers is moving than we would've thought just a few years ago. Construction of two, at two different shipyards near concurrently is impressive no matter how you cut it.

But I think now would also be a good time to consider how we end up describing the JN and DL CATOBAR carriers.

I think everyone agrees that JN's CATOBAR carrier should sensibly be called 003, but will DL's CATOBAR carrier also be called 003 -- i.e.: implying that the "00X" designation is a "type" or "class" -- or will it be called 004, and thus implying that each carrier is successively 001, 002, 003, 004, etc.



I'm also curious about how there's been relatively little recent movement on the carrier airwing side of things, whether it's continued production of J-15s, or evidence of continued robust development of the catapult compatible J-15 variant, not to mention a decision on the carrierborne stealth fighter. Considering the first CATOBAR carrier 003 will likely enter service in the early 2020s, I expect the Navy would want to have a decent number of catapult compatible J-15s -- or preferably even a carrierborne stealth fighter -- in service in decent numbers to hit the ground running, rather than have the carrier wait for enough planes to be produced for the airwing.

 

[SinoSoldier]

The general lack of new carrier aircraft is odd to say the least. To date there has been no hint of a resumption in J-15 production, development of a J-15B, or anything in that realm. The fact that CV-17 is set to enter service in 2019 and that its new pilots have already begun training aboard the CV-16 makes it all the weirder.

Regarding next-generation PLAN fighters, I think gongke101 mentioned that we might get the results of the tender in a few months' time. If we're to go by pb19980515's claim that the J-XY will fly in late 2019, an IOC date of 2025 (roughly when CV-18 and CV-19 will be entering service) isn't too implausible. But again, pb19980515 has been incorrectly pessimistic in his claims in the past (e.g. J-15D) and it's possible that the PLAN might have a few surprises up its sleeve.