CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations

[Jeff Head]

Yes I know where it is on the Nimitz class .... Nimitz, Ford etc is diff cause the island is much smaller and the perch above the bridge allows almost unhindered look at the entire flight deck and the airspace surrounding the carrier.

Since liaoning and this carrier has a massive island superstructure and equally big stack it may make more sense to place it aft to better observe landings and traps.

Thank you.

Spoken as one (I know) who has spent their share of time in pri-fly my friend.

I hope our friends here on SD will wisely listen to your voice of experience.

We'll know soon enough now where the PLAN intends to place it here.

 

[kwaigonegin]

Yes I know where it is on the Nimitz class .... Nimitz, Ford etc is diff cause the island is much smaller and the perch above the bridge allows almost unhindered look at the entire flight deck and the airspace surrounding the carrier.

Since liaoning and this carrier has a massive island superstructure and equally big stack it may make more sense to place it aft to better observe landings and traps.

One more thing... That extra level you're revering to not seen in liaoning is call the flag bridge. That's where the head honcho sits.. Or officially the CCSG.
.. and do you know why they is a CCSG? Because PLAN carrier operations is or will be modeled after the USN which will include Comm, Carrier Strike Group when they are formed.

soviet navy didn't have those or at least that level dedicated to the flag officer on charge of the strike group.

I find this to be quite interesting and educational at the same time. PLAN is slowly but surely moving from old Soviet style doctrines to the US and this carrier is a hybrid if you will of the two mind sets coming together.

This carrier is the transitional piece... Large part of soviet design, architecture but infuse with western ones.
Next class of carrier will NO DOUBT in my mind model after western super carriers or more specifically USN.. because it works.! No need to reinvent the wheel.

 

[Iron Man]

I expect this carrier to be completed to the same type of standard and that it may well by April-May as I have said. We shall see.

As soon as most of the radars and CIWS are in place and some paint is applied, that is how CV-17 will look. This is also how I envision the state of CV-17 when it launches. As I said before, finishing the island, sealing the flight deck, and installing the CIWS are not mutually exclusive activities.

One more thing... That extra level you're revering to not seen in liaoning is call the flag bridge. That's where the head honcho sits.. Or officially the CCSG.
.. and do you know why they is a CCSG? Because PLAN carrier operations is or will be modeled after the USN which will include Comm, Carrier Strike Group when they are formed.

I guess you just missed all the previous posts where I specifically used the term "flag bridge" to describe that level. BTW pri-fly at the rear gets you a better view of the traps but a worse view of the bow launches for the exact same reason, so there is a tradeoff either way. As the islands get smaller and smaller on future PLAN carriers, I expect all the bridges to face forward just like on Nimitz and Ford class carriers.

 

[Blitzo]

I know it's noob question but how come the conventionally powered Brazilian São Paulo doesn't need such a big boiler or island?

Conventional propulsion =/= big island.

Consider the USN's legacy conventional supercarrires like the Forrestal or Kitty Hawk classes, which all have quite small islands like their subsequent/current CVNs.

 

[Jeff Head]

As soon as most of the radars and CIWS are in place and some paint is applied, that is how CV-17 will look. This is also how I envision the state of CV-17 when it launches. As I said before, finishing the island, sealing the flight deck, and installing the CIWS are not mutually exclusive activities.

Which I never said or implied.

I just know what kind of wiring has to be done internally in order to get the many things hat they are tieing together to a place where most nations (outside of perhaps India and a couple of others) feel comfortable launching their lager vessels, particularly carriers.

...and there's a lot of that to be done as you can see when you look at the island lift.

Anyhow...time will tell.

I still stand by a most likely 2nd quarter 2017 launch...but will have no problem if the PLAN beats that. ...but there is will not be because they rush things to have any kind of artifially early date. They simply have no reason to, and I do not expect one to develop between now and then.

Hwck, having laid the keel in ealy Feb 2015, launching the carrier by the end of may May 2017 means 28 months...and that in itself is impressive,especially when you consider that they are elarly being able to do so without rshing it in any way.

We shall see.

 

[kwaigonegin]

Conventional propulsion =/= big island.

Consider the USN's legacy conventional supercarrires like the Forrestal or Kitty Hawk classes, which all have quite small islands like their subsequent/current CVNs.

Other than the stack you can minimized the footprint. The reason it has the big island is because that's just how the russkis liked it. Design philosophy if you will. keep in mind that the kutz class was derived from the Kiev class which was designated an aircraft carrying cruiser by the Russians. Not a 'true' aircraft carrier.

Even the kutz class's mission profile was very different than USN carriers. It was still heavy on armaments and was still envisioned to play more of a support combatant role than a true aircraft carrier. In that sense the island was more than just a bridge and a tower unlike USN carriers.

The Ulyanovsk would've been more of a true aircraft carrier and her island was smaller relative to her size but as we all know she got scrapped.

 

[Intrepid]

Carrier island layout is kind of evolution. Until CV 64 all conventionally powered USN carriers had their Pri-Fly on the aft end of the island. The last two conventional carriers CV 66 and CV 67 had their Pri-Fly above the captains bridge like CVN 65 and Nimitz-class. The Chinese type 002 will have its Pri-Fly (as we can see in Wuhan) above the captains bridge. Type 001A has its Pri-Fly old-style on the aft end of the island.

Aft-end Pri-Fly is suitable for smaler air wings.

 

[delft]

I find this to be quite interesting and educational at the same time. PLAN is slowly but surely moving from old Soviet style doctrines to the US and this carrier is a hybrid if you will of the two mind sets coming together.

How "slowly"? The Adm K class was designed to defend a bastion for SSBM boats and that was never yet part of China's strategy. The geographical position of China is so very different from that of the late Soviet Union that its strategy will never have been appropriate for China.
Doctrine and equipment follow strategy.

 

[kwaigonegin]

How "slowly"? The Adm K class was designed to defend a bastion for SSBM boats and that was never yet part of China's strategy. The geographical position of China is so very different from that of the late Soviet Union that its strategy will never have been appropriate for China.
Doctrine and equipment follow strategy.

Like I said they are very different which is why PLAN is adopting USN 'inspired' strategies and doctrines and tailor them to meet their specific needs. PLAN of the past got stuck with Soviet design philosophy because they didn't have any choice and frankly because they were poor but now that they can afford it you see a shift in designs of their indigenous vessels including the addition of the flag bridge etc.

The aircraft carrier is basically the last bastion of old Soviet design philosophy and with CV01 you can see the transitional change.

 

[Sczepan]

... The Adm K class was designed to defend a bastion for SSBM boats and that was never yet part of China's strategy. The geographical position of China is so very different from that of the late Soviet Union that its strategy will never have been appropriate for China.
Doctrine and equipment follow strategy.

hmmm - as I know, both carrier ports (Guzhenkou-Bay/Dazhu Shan and Sanya) are nearby the chinese SSN-Bases, so 001 and 001 A could also serve to defence the chineses SSBNs in case of conflict, - additional to todays trainee-job