CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations

[Jeff Head]

Not hull number #17?

I believe he is referring to the Project Number, which many now take to be 002 instead of 001A.

 

[antiterror13]

I believe he is referring to the Project Number, which many now take to be 002 instead of 001A.

Jeff, I know that having a carrier is a very expensive business, especially with high tempo USN. Do you know how much roughly the operating cost of 1 Nimitz class a year?

I don't think Chinese carrier would have the same tempo as USN and also being smaller, conventional and lower wages and other things, perhaps the operating cost of Chinese carrier (1st and 2nd) would be relatively low compare to the Nimitz ... like 15-20%?

 

[asif iqbal]

Jeff, I know that having a carrier is a very expensive business, especially with high tempo USN. Do you know how much roughly the operating cost of 1 Nimitz class a year?

I don't think Chinese carrier would have the same tempo as USN and also being smaller, conventional and lower wages and other things, perhaps the operating cost of Chinese carrier (1st and 2nd) would be relatively low compare to the Nimitz ... like 15-20%?

Carriers do not sail on their own they sail part of the overall carrier task group

The cost depends on the manning power, because that is the largest bill

for USN there's over 5,000 personal in the entire strike group and that costs around $2.5 billion per year if deployed 24/7, that is why Ford Class is cheaper less manpower and will save $4.8 billion over the lifetime of the carrier

for Royal Navy it would be less since less manpower is required

for PLAN the same would apply since they are both ski jumps and overall manning is lower

But put it this way, there is no cheap way to run a carrier strike group, only top tier navy’s can afford it, it’s a good way for small country’s to go bankrupt

 

[Hendrik_2000]

From global times via Jsch

China prepares aircraft carrier for sea trial
By Yang Sheng Source:Global Times Published: 2018/3/27 18:58:39

The pictured is China's first home-built aircraft carrier at a shipyard in Dalian, Northeast China's Liaoning Province on Monday. Photo: IC

China's first domestically built carrier, known as the Type 001A, is undergoing preparations for its first sea trial, while discussions about its name show that Chinese people hold high expectations of the carrier's ability to resolve the Taiwan question.

According to the latest online photos from the Dalian Shipbuilding Industry Company (DSIC) construction site in Liaoning Province, where the carrier was launched and outfitted, the scaffolds on the carrier have been completely removed, and a phased array radar has been installed.

"All the equipment and devices on the carrier are in the joint debugging stage, and the main engine has been powered. In 2018, we will present a surprise to the Chinese people," DSIC Chairman Liu Zheng said, according to a report on cctv.com, the official website of China Central Television, on March 13.

Liu, who is also the general director of construction of the Type 001A and a member of the National People's Congress (NPC), made the comments to cctv.com when he was attending the

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"This all proves that the Type 001A is getting ready for its first sea trial, and the exact timing will depend on factors like the weather and sea conditions. April 23 is Navy Day, the founding day of the PLA Navy [April 23 1949], so this might also be taken into consideration," Li Jie, a Beijing-based naval expert, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

"After the sea trial, which normally takes about 6-12 months, it will be ready for delivery to the PLA Navy, so it's very likely we will see the carrier enlisted by the end of 2018," said Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator.

Full speed

The Type 001A was launched in Dalian on April 26 2017, three days after Navy Day, and the outfitting work only took about one year.

The speed with which the Type 001A was built was the fastest in the history of aircraft carrier construction, as it only took two years from the laying of the foundation in the shipyard to its launch, and more importantly, everything from the ship's body to its devices is domestically built, Liu said.

"The quality of our construction is also world-class. For example, the world-class standard for the flatness of the flight deck is not more than 4 percent, and we made it lower than 3 percent," Liu noted.

All in the name

During the Two Sessions, Yuan Maorong, an NPC deputy from Taizhou city, East China's Zhejiang Province, suggested naming the carrier "Wei Wen", after a military general from the Three Kingdoms period (AD 184/220-280) who was the first man in history to arrive at Taiwan, according to cctv.com on March 13.

Yuan said naming the carrier Wei Wen would show the historical fact of Taiwan being an integral part of China, and push the development of

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The discussion of how the ship should be named has also been spreading in social media. Many Chinese netizens suggested simply naming the carrier "Taiwan," while others suggested naming it "Shi Lang", an admiral who recaptured Taiwan for the Qing Dynasty.

"This displays the high expectations among the Chinese people over solving the Taiwan question, because they want the country to use the first domestically built aircraft carrier as a symbol to announce its determination and ability to achieve this aim, and also send a tough warning signal to the secessionists in Taiwan," Li noted.

However, the carrier is not targeting Taiwan, according to a military expert from a Beijing-based military academy who requested anonymity. He explained that if Beijing decided to use military measures to solve the Taiwan question, the PLA is fully capable of doing so without an aircraft carrier, and Type 001A was made for a greater purpose.

"The PLA Navy has regulations for naming large vessels like aircraft carriers, which generally use the names of provinces and municipalities," Song said.

"Liaoning is primarily a platform for training personnel and collecting data through testing, while Type 001A is China's first carrier made for combat missions, so its name could be more special. It's impossible to name it with a person's name, for only vessels used for scientific research can use a person's name in China," said the anonymous military expert.

 

[kwaigonegin]

Jeff, I know that having a carrier is a very expensive business, especially with high tempo USN. Do you know how much roughly the operating cost of 1 Nimitz class a year?

I don't think Chinese carrier would have the same tempo as USN and also being smaller, conventional and lower wages and other things, perhaps the operating cost of Chinese carrier (1st and 2nd) would be relatively low compare to the Nimitz ... like 15-20%?

A little less than $0.5B /yr

Chinese carrier would be significantly much less. Salary alone would be a huge chunk (I do not know what PLAN sailors make but I presume much less than USN in actual dollars) not to mention 1/3 to 1/4 less in aircraft maintenance, fuel etc. Also much less sorties.

 

[asif iqbal]

Flatness for flight deck is 4% they managed under 3%? What the hell does that exactly mean ?? It’s got a ski jump

 

[asif iqbal]

Although I reckon this carrier will sail within weeks

Keel laid 2015, launched 2017 and sea trials 2018

Handing over to navy in 2019

 

[Jeff Head]

Jeff, I know that having a carrier is a very expensive business, especially with high tempo USN. Do you know how much roughly the operating cost of 1 Nimitz class a year?

I don't think Chinese carrier would have the same tempo as USN and also being smaller, conventional and lower wages and other things, perhaps the operating cost of Chinese carrier (1st and 2nd) would be relatively low compare to the Nimitz ... like 15-20%?

It is a complex question.

You have the annual operating costs...meaning the operation of the ship, its equipment, fuel, food, lubricants, cleaners, etc., etc. For a Nimitz class this runs somtehing close to 200 million per year.

Then you have the cost of the crew itself. This is their salaries, their leave costs, governmnet portion of their medical, government portion of their Thrift Savings, their social security,etc., etc. This will be in 400 million per year or so.

Then you have the periodic maintenance costs when it comes in for normal maintenance...probably 150 million in that year.

Then you have the big overhaul years, when modernization, big overhaul costs, and the reactor. In those years you are going to spend 250-300 million million...but also in those years the operating costs are much lower.

Then you have the air wing maintenance costs, which annually are probably 200 million.

Finally, you have all of the similar costs for each and every vessels in the carrier strike group. 2-3 DDGs, 1-2 CGs, at leas 1 SSN, etc.

So, for the carrier and its air wing you are going to spend something close to a billion dollars a year. Probably double that by the time you add all of its escorts and those other costs, and then amortize the overhaul and maintenance costs out over each year.

For the carrier...maybe a billion, give or take 150 million,. For the escorts, add other close to a billion. For the entire CSG, two billion per yer is probably not a bad estimate.

 

[Jeff Head]

A little less than $0.5B /yr

Chinese carrier would be significantly much less. Salary alone would be a huge chunk (I do not know what PLAN sailors make but I presume much less than USN in actual dollars) not to mention 1/3 to 1/4 less in aircraft maintenance, fuel etc. Also much less sorties.

See my answer when you add in all of the costs, including the cost of the crew and air wing, you'd better double your estimate, particularly when you amortize the overhaul and maintenance years into it.

Then, double it all again (or close to it) when you add in the equipment, crew, maintenance, and overhaul costs of the rest of the carrier strike group.

 

[antiterror13]

Thanks @Jeff Head and others .. another proof we can learn a lot from this very respected forum

woow, not cheap at all, I'd guess for Chinese CBG (being smaller, conventional, lower wages and lower tempo) the cost probably 1/3 of USN CBG or roughly $0.75B a year ... still a lot of money