CV-16 Liaoning (001 carrier) Thread II ...News, Views and operations

[Intrepid]

From this dead lifeless rust bucket to this sleek modern carrier and functioning complement of air wing and all the attended sailor and deck crew

The Chinese have not only made Liaoning operational. They also understood the ship, how it works. And they learned why it is the way it is.

And above all: they took the time to understand everything from the ground up.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

because copying is always easier and faster than pioneering

Nope retrofit is more difficult than building brand new because you are hampered by existing structure and missing drawing, material spec, component spec. It just like big jigsaw puzzle. It took the chinese 10 years to figure it out. They might have Russian engineer help along the way But the majority of the work is done by themselves. Most of RE take about the same time
RE is not as easy as people think case in point China recover US torpedo Mk 46 and reverse engineer as Yu 7 It took them 12 years to do it! But without basic engineering and dogged determination nothing will be done. India has all the help yet she has not master jet engine production.

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Yu-7 (鱼-7) torpedo is the Chinese development of the US

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incorporating technologies of the

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torpedo. Many domestic Chinese sources have considered Yu-7 torpedo as the Chinese equivalent of US

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.

Development

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|

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According to official information released by the Chinese government, several US

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had been recovered by Chinese fishermen in the 1970s and 1980s, with the most advanced version the

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recovered in October, 1978 from South China Sea. Decision was given to reverse engineer the American torpedo under the name “Project 109” to produce the badly needed

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light torpedo for the Chinese military. 705th Institute (also called Xi'an Precision Machinery Research Institute, 西安精密机械研究所) and Northwestern Polytechnical University were tasked with being the research team, while the No. 872 Factory and No. 874 Factory were assigned as the production facility. Full scale development started in 1984, with over 90 enterprises in the country involved in assisting the four major enterprises to develop the torpedo. 705th Institute (also known as Xi'an Precision Machinery Research Institute, 西安精密机械研究所) was responsible for the shallow water control systems of the torpedo and Northwestern Polytechnical University was responsible for the deep water control systems of the torpedo. The Yu-7 torpedo is composed of over 5,000 parts and 4,500 instruments, while it had over 80,000 blueprints and its technical documents totaled over 100,000 pages. The first two prototype torpedoes were assembled in No. 874 Factory in December 1984 and were tested in the 750 Testing Range (750试验场) in Kunming in December 1985. By 1989 the Yu-7 torpedo had success

 

[Richard Santos]

that is very bare minimum lighting for the carrier even for the island

night time carrier operations is the pinnacle of carrier operations

night time in bad weather is even worse

whoever can master the night carrier operations will have advantage in battle

reminds me of the Imperial Japanese Navy in WWII

by 1943 Japanese were beaten and on the retreat, however USN would still not fight them at night

because although the day belonged to the USN the night always belonged to the Japanese hence the term "Tokyo Express"

Imperial Japanese were true masters of night operations even without radar

Japanese night fighting superiority lasted to perhaps mid 1943. By late 1944, the US Navy was capable of vastly out performing the Japanese by most measures of night fighting, as it demonstrated during Leyte Gulf in Surigao strait.

The fact that the USN did not always seek out night fighting even in 1944 is night fighting is always more chancy than day fighting. You can see the power of chance in night fighting during the 1st battle of Guadalcanal, when a materially inferior US task force of cruisers and destroyers, badly handled and outmatched in night fighting techniques, tactically defeated a much superior Japanese force including 2 battleships. This is largely attributable to the fact that heavy confusion on both sides by chance hindered the Japanese more than the America. The chancy nature of night fighting makes it something a fleet confident of its chances during the day would be wise to avoid. You only fight at night if you think you would lose if you fought during the day.

 

[davidau]

Japanese night fighting superiority lasted to perhaps mid 1943. By late 1944, the US Navy was capable of vastly out performing the Japanese by most measures of night fighting, as it demonstrated during Leyte Gulf in Surigao strait.

The fact that the USN did not always seek out night fighting even in 1944 is night fighting is always more chancy than day fighting. You can see the power of chance in night fighting during the 1st battle of Guadalcanal, when a materially inferior US task force of cruisers and destroyers, badly handled and outmatched in night fighting techniques, tactically defeated a much superior Japanese force including 2 battleships. This is largely attributable to the fact that heavy confusion on both sides by chance hindered the Japanese more than the America. The chancy nature of night fighting makes it something a fleet confident of its chances during the day, and confident the enemy can not preserve its forces on long term basis by avoiding to fight during the day, would avoid. You only fight at night if you think you would lose if you fought during the day.

This is CV 16 Liaoning [001 carrier] site. What has it got to do with 1944 US night fighting?

 

[KampfAlwin]

@Hendrik_2000

It's quite sad that after all these years. They are still people that tries to dampen China's achievements.

It's funny India's carrier is now only going out to sea trial after...... how many years?

If it's so easy to copy and paste. We'll all be doing it.

Even then, it also shows China's method of 'copying' is even better. It led them to a new clean-sheet design(Type 003) after only ten years. Whereas 'pioneering' like what the Indians are supposedly doing, led them to a inferior design after more than ten years and no Type 003 equivalent. So it seems 'copying' is a faster path to a 'pioneering design' than 'pioneering' alone itself

 

[Richard Santos]

Nope retrofit is more difficult than building brand new because you are hampered by existing structure and missing drawing, material spec, component spec. It just like big jigsaw puzzle. It took the chinese 10 years to figure it out. They might have Russian engineer help along the way But the majority of the work is done by themselves. Most of RE take about the same time
RE is not as easy as people think case in point China recover US torpedo Mk 46 and reverse engineer as Yu 7 It took them 12 years to do it! But without basic engineering and dogged determination nothing will be done. India has all the help yet she has not master jet engine production.

China also received 40 tons of blue prints and design documentation for the Varyag along with the hull.

 

[Deino]

China also received 40 tons of blue prints and design documentation for the Varyag along with the hull.

Again, is this confirmed? I remember an interview at around the time, the Shandong was ready for launch with that guy who had organises the purchase and he clearly said, no plans were delivered. So what is correct?

 

[by78]

Japanese night fighting superiority lasted to perhaps mid 1943. By late 1944, the US Navy was capable of vastly out performing the Japanese by most measures of night fighting, as it demonstrated during Leyte Gulf in Surigao strait.

The fact that the USN did not always seek out night fighting even in 1944 is night fighting is always more chancy than day fighting. You can see the power of chance in night fighting during the 1st battle of Guadalcanal, when a materially inferior US task force of cruisers and destroyers, badly handled and outmatched in night fighting techniques, tactically defeated a much superior Japanese force including 2 battleships. This is largely attributable to the fact that heavy confusion on both sides by chance hindered the Japanese more than the America. The chancy nature of night fighting makes it something a fleet confident of its chances during the day would be wise to avoid. You only fight at night if you think you would lose if you fought during the day.

Could you please not derail this thread? I understand that you have an itch to always say something, even when it's wildly off-topic, but please consider using the private messaging system to continue your discussion there.

 

[by78]

Again, is this confirmed? I remember an interview at around the time, the Shandong was ready for launch with that guy who had organises the purchase and he clearly said, no plans were delivered. So what is correct?

It's been asserted by Minnie Chan.

@Richard Santos, please try not to cite Minnie Chan here again, ever.

 

[antiterror13]

because copying is always easier and faster than pioneering

What are you implying?

I welcome you back ...... and you start being "funny and irrational"