Crisis in the Ukraine

I enjoyed the new map I saw on three BBC website articles each with very nearly the same text. All articles say "Russia is reinforcing and resupplying separatist forces in a blatant attempt to change the momentum of the fighting, which is currently favouring the Ukrainian military" as well as 'Ukraine confirmed reports that Novoazovsk had been captured by the rebels, whom they described as "Russian troops".'

Fight for Ilovajsk (Rebels)
Take these videos with a grain of salt.

[video=youtube;dLT9Mif_y-o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dLT9Mif_y-o[/video]



I will now get back to bottling my Malbec

Ukrainian rebel leader Alexander Zakharchenko : Russian soldiers are fighting among us.
Take these videos with a grain of salt.

[video=youtube;ImpixvWZsNo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImpixvWZsNo&feature=player_embedded[/video]




I will now get back to bottling my Malbec

thunderchief said:

There is a lot of confusion created (deliberately or not) by mixing terms intervention and invasion .

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I don't want to start a play of words or nothing, but English is my third/fourth language so I quickly checked the Internet ... and I put here what I just found:

says "The deliberate act of a nation or a group of nations to introduce its military forces into the course of an existing controversy."

wiki says "An invasion is a military offensive in which large parts of combatants of one geopolitical entity aggressively enter territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a territory, forcing the partition of a country, altering the established government or gaining concessions from said government, or a combination thereof."

Miragedriver said:

Ukrainian rebel leader Alexander Zakharchenko : Russian soldiers are fighting among us

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Gracias, Miragedriver, my SDF Amigo it backs up my post http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-51-6939.html#post302646

thunderchief said:

There is a lot of confusion created (deliberately or not) by mixing terms intervention and invasion .

Russia probably did intervene in war by giving logistic, sending arms, training rebels or even by sending volunteers. This could be compared to what US did in Syria, or to a larger extent in Libya. But Russia certainly did not yet invade Ukraine, like US did in Iraq 2003.

Would Russia really invade Ukraine ? I don't know but let me tell you one thing : Ukrainian artillery still has Donetsk and Lugansk in range, and actually shelled and rocketed them today. IMHO, first sign of real Russian invasion would be heavy air strikes on those positions followed by armored thrust to eliminate them . There is no talk about going to Kiev if you cannot eliminate multiple pockets of resistance in your rear near strategetic points.

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Absolutely
Its another BS media propaganda exercise in overdrive. For Ukraine its about hiding its shame on being humiliated by an irregular force. For the US Hawks its about justifying restoring military spending cuts and for NATO its about justifying its continued existence as a cosy, pampered, bloated bureaucracy.
It never ceases to amaze how the willing suspension of disbelief is exercised by the media and the establishment they mouthpiece for.
We have on this thread followed the development of this situation, how the Ukrainians advanced, threw the full weight against the militia and watched as they stumbled, first in the South of Luhansk, in the Southern Cauldron and then later in cities like Shayktorsk, Krasny Luch and still in Ilovaisk today. We have seen and chronicled the mass destruction of Ukrainian Armour and the death of its soldiers in numbers many times higher then the quoted figures. We have seen the endless trophy Armoured Vehicles captured on the battlefield. We have been told many weeks ago that many were joining the militia is response to the Ukrainian shelling and we have been told that many men were being trained to operate specialist equipment.
We have watched, studied and commented upon every step of this process in detail since the crisis began.
We were even told that the aforementioned elements were being put into place and that before long, as the Ukrainian army runs out of steam before our eyes, that a Counter offensive would be launched.

Well, this is exactly what has happened as predicted and as expected and straight away, we are told that have to believe that its all down to the Russians!

I cannot believe that anyone here would be fool enough to believe such nonsense.

The last time I looked, the Russian army still operated in large combined arms formations and had a very solid line of C&C all the way to the top. I am not aware of the Russian military operating in isolated companies. Or that a Russian tank army consists of just a single tank!

There are supposed to be fifty thousand men in the Ukrainian punitive force in the Donbass and they face a militia army of about twenty thousand. Into this we are told that there are one thousand regular Russian soldiers. What sort of Invasion force is just a one thousand men? What sort of formation is just one thousand men? What Units are they? under whose command are they? what is their function? what is their purpose? where are they?

Once again our leaders have stood before us and made the most serious allegations, once again they have failed to back them up with any evidence worthy of the name.

If Russia has invaded the Ukraine, the Ukrainian government should say so clearly and make equally clear that they consider themselves in a state of war with the Russian Federation. Why will they not make such a statement?

Jura said:

I don't want to start a play of words or nothing, but English is my third/fourth language so I quickly checked the Internet ... and I put here what I just found:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

says "The deliberate act of a nation or a group of nations to introduce its military forces into the course of an existing controversy."

wiki says "An invasion is a military offensive in which large parts of combatants of one geopolitical entity aggressively enter territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a territory, forcing the partition of a country, altering the established government or gaining concessions from said government, or a combination thereof."

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Yes, your dictionary is right : invasion > military intervention > intervention

Putin is attempting another shrewd move - let encircled Ukrainian forces cross into Russia on humanitarian reasons :

Putin calls on Ukraine militia to let blocked Kiev troops to cross into Russia

President Putin has called on the self-defense militias in Ukraine to provide Kiev's military units blocked in the east of the country with a safe humanitarian corridor to cross into Russia.

“It is obvious that the militia has reached a considerable success in curbing Kiev’s military operation, that had been a deadly threat to the population of Donbass and already led to heavy casualties among civilians,” the Russian leader said in a statement.

As a result of militias’ counter-offense, large numbers of Ukrainian troops – many of whom were taking part in Kiev’s so-called anti-terrorist operation “against their will” and “just following orders” – have been surrounded, the President added.

“I urge the militias to open a humanitarian corridor for Ukrainian troops that were surrounded, in order to avoid meaningless victims and provide them with the opportunity to freely withdraw from the battlefield area, to be reunited with their families, to return to their mothers, wives and children,” Putin said.

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SampanViking said:

Absolutely
Its another BS media propaganda exercise in overdrive. For Ukraine its about hiding its shame on being humiliated by an irregular force. For the US Hawks its about justifying restoring military spending cuts and for NATO its about justifying its continued existence as a cosy, pampered, bloated bureaucracy.

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Damn, the force is strong with you.

thunderchief said:

Putin is attempting another shrewd move - let encircled Ukrainian forces cross into Russia on humanitarian reasons :

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Scratching my head thinking what's that 'shrewd' move you're writing about... 'Cheeky' or 'insolent' would be better words to describe that.

Main reason why I no longer read BBC about anything after their coverage of the MH17 shoot down.

plawolf said:

Yet more classic progaganda spin tactics by the western media in the reporting of this crisis.

Just look at the headline articles on the BBC if you want proof, but I won't bother reporting such drivel here.

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