Crisis in the Ukraine

It will really free up many more separatists to keep moving west instead of doing police work. And of course those 100 tanks and assorted vehicles and artillery.

thunderchief said:

Putin is attempting another shrewd move - let encircled Ukrainian forces cross into Russia on humanitarian reasons :

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Dannhill said:

It will really free up many more separatists to keep moving west instead of doing police work. And of course those 100 tanks and assorted vehicles and artillery.

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exactly, way better than having those troops wasted on mopping up units that are already out of the fight.

it seems like mariupol is where kiev is going to make a stand. though it is cut off now so they will have to figure that out. now if kiev does not stop the rebels here, i dont know if this will precipitate something bigger like a collapse of the government. the worst part is poroshenko has almost no room for cease-fire talks.

Janiz said:

Damn, the force is strong with you.Scratching my head thinking what's that 'shrewd' move you're writing about... 'Cheeky' or 'insolent' would be better words to describe that.

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Eliminating cauldrons, and at the same time appearing humane, plus undermining morale of Ukrainian soldiers especially conscripts - our own government is sending us to slaughter, while Russians offered way out , gave us food, water and shelter, and then send us home .

Tactics appear to be working :

SampanViking said:

... For Ukraine its about hiding its shame on being humiliated by an irregular force. For the US Hawks its about justifying restoring military spending cuts and for NATO its about justifying its continued existence as a cosy, pampered, bloated bureaucracy.
...

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Recently somebody brought us to the pub a fresh copy of Правда (Pravda - The Truth), still a huge format, no color (here the Communistic newspaper changed the name, got smaller and colorful), several Orders of Lenin etc. proudly presented on top of the front page ... I went through it ... and I don't think nowadays they use the type of language I quoted above.

Jura said:

I wonder if you would have said the same if during

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some NATO soldiers (yes, it's speculative, but read on) had been officially on holidays but at the same time fought together with the Georgians?

P.S. Original post by delft: http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-51-6939.html#post302655

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I would make a distinction between taking service in the army of a warring state and taking service to enable that state to commit aggression. The first might be just professonal interest, the second is much more political.

The crash site of MH17 might soon be safe enough to allow investigators to collect the evidence so that we can find out how and by whom the aircraft was destroyed. The results are likely to be important. Will Kiev declare such an investigation to be unacceptable?

I almost missed that:

SampanViking said:

...
We were even told that the aforementioned elements were being put into place and that before long, as the Ukrainian army runs out of steam before our eyes, that a Counter offensive would be launched.

Well, this is exactly what has happened as predicted and as expected and straight away, we are told that have to believe that its all down to the Russians!

I cannot believe that anyone here would be fool enough to believe such nonsense.

...

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I'm "fool enough" here LOL as I think in case of the Separatists would've been gradually loosing ... but Separatists, according to their own announcements, have been obtaining enough resources not only NOT to be worn down, but counter-attack in several directions simultaneously! for example, started his speech yesterday http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-51-6939.html#post302646 from saying something like "Questions are frequently asked about how it's possible the Separatists' Army not only hold up the Ukrainian Army, but started the offensive." (not exact quote, using my memory -- I'm cooking the lunch now) and he went on with what's translated in http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-52-6939.html#post302673

delft said:

I would make a distinction between taking service in the army of a warring state and taking service to enable that state to commit aggression. ...

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I see ... so it's not only about the centuries-long tradition, it seems ... and if some NATO soldiers officially on holidays had gone to Grozny being just stormed by the Russian Army during ? What would you have said then?

P.S. Original post by delft http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-51-6939.html#post302655

Summary of what the separatists have captured from the Kiev forces since the start of the punitive action.

"Thus, according to just our data, from June 20 to August 23 during the conduct of the punitive operation the defenders of the DPR and the LPR captured from the Ukrainian army: 79 T-64s, 94 IFVs, 57 APCs, 3 ARVs, 9 IFVs, 24 MRLS BM-21 "Grad", 3 MRLS "Uragan", 2 SPH 2C4 "Tulip", 6 SPH 2C9 "Nona", 27 SPH 2C1 "Gvozdika", 14 D-30 howitzers, 36 82-mm mortars, 19 ZU-23-2, 157 automobiles."

A moment ago I read non-Kremlin Russian article "Half-Stepped From A Full-Scale War" (my translation)

which is scary, says if Putin's strategic goal announced in April, which is "sustainable truce" is not achieved quickly after the recent surge of the Russian involvement (some posters here seem to believe there is no such a thing), in particular by taking over Mariupol, tens of thousands of Russian soldiers will soon go in ... one of the reason would be new Conscripts will arrive after October 1, but until then the current Conscripts man Battalion-level Artillery ... the article says