Crisis in the Ukraine

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Air Force Brat

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t2contra" he may be a little nutty. " In an Aug. 7 post on his news site said:
," the former GOP presidential candidate wrote. "The little that we have heard from U.S. intelligence is that it has no evidence that Russia was involved. Yet the war propaganda were successful in convincing the American public that it was all Russia’s fault."

"It’s hard to believe that the U.S., with all of its spy satellites available for monitoring everything in Ukraine that precise proof of who did what and when is not available," he added.

The Obama administration has said that pro-Russian separatists who have been trained and equipped by Moscow likely shot down MH17. "We do think President Putin and the Russian government bears responsibility for the support they provided to the separatists, the arms they have provided to the separatists, the training that they provided as well and the general unstable environment in eastern Ukraine," White House deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes told CNN last month.

Russia, however, has denied involvement in the attack and has blamed the Ukrainian government for downing the plane.

"Questions do remain regarding the serious international incident," Paul wrote last week of the MH17 crash. "Too bad we can’t count on our government to just tell us the truth and show us the evidence. I’m convinced that it knows a lot more than it’s telling us."

Yes, Ron is a genuine tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist, and yes he is a little nutty, to question the President is OK, but the US military would have had a fit if the presidents statement was off base, as it would directly reflect on their own credibility. this has NOT happened, furthermore Ron is a stick your head in the sand, and let the world go to hell in a handbasket type, he is opposed to any kind of foreign aid or intervention. No doubt the US military knows where the missle came from, as well as what it was, the president has made a statement, he doesn't need to make folks like Ron Paul happy, when the evidence is in, and has been examined, he will no doubt make a more definitive statement.....

when was the last time Russia took responsibility for their actions????? the press in Russia is tightly controlled by the president and communist government.
 

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*Thread under review*

Please keep your posts ON TOPIC and RELEVANT to the subject - Crisis in the Ukraine (not MH17 crisis in the Ukraine).
 

SampanViking

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Remember last week (or the week before) and strange stories about SS 21 missiles being used to try and target chemical plants to cause massive toxic releases?

A story from RT this morning

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This is a story about Ukrainian artillery shells falling very close (or indeed inside) a large Chemical plant in Gorlivika; just north east of Donetsk city. The key phrase in the article was a warning that the toxic fall out from the plants destruction could spread to up to 300km. This would of course take it well inside the territory of the Russian Federation.
I suspect that the basic Humanitarian R2P argument is being stiffened by a dose of potential Casus Belli!

A Final note also on the effective end of the Southern Cauldron last week.

In military terms, there can be little doubt that the Ukrainian military have suffered a military disaster with the collapse and liquidation of an entire army group and associated front, one that has not only included significant loss, but the gain to the rebels of a substantial amount of armoured vehicles.

The victory for the militia was only tactical as the more substantive strategic victory was snatched from them by an enemy that realised that it was survivable as long as their was not a major surrender to the Russians or the milita. To achieve this, the trapped forces undertook (are still undertaking) a series of reckless break outs, that made poor military sense, but which were politically expedient.

Kiev has been able to survive this event, for one primary reason, which is an effective media black out on the whole Civil War by the Main Stream Media. Stories may be carried every day on the BBC and other websites, but they are so lacking in detail, out of date and generally inaccurate, that they might as well publish nothing!
Only exceptional items gain any attention and the surrender of the near 450 Ukrainians received little attention and zero analysis. Had a couple of thousand others surrendered in the same way just days, that silence would have been hard to maintain and a major loss of initiative and momentum suffered by the Ukraine and its backers.

The Cauldron story has also confirmed some operational realities about the limitations of the militia. It is clear that the majority of their forces are light infantry with limited mobility and which rely on a small body of mechanised professionals to rapidly reinforce the hotspots as they break out. This clearly gives Kiev the advantage as its forces seem fully mechanised and able to launch multiple simultaneous assaults which either stretch the mechanised militia or force the leadership to make choices as to the fronts they can most afford to lose.
Many of these best troops have been tied up with the Southern Cauldron and we will see if there return to other fronts, plus the infusion of new armour and artillery will be able to significantly change the balance of advantage.

Quick update

News from Tass of more shelling of Russia from across the border (similar news yesterday). The interesting part is that these instances are far further west than previous incidents, based around Matveyev- Kurgan and support the contention that the Southern Cauldron is gone and that the hot border is now nearly as West as Donetsk itself.

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It further suggests that the Southern Front line is a now a Westerly front that bulges into militia territory as far as Saur Maglier and with a residual cauldron bubble up by Krasny Luch.
 
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Kiev has been able to survive this event, for one primary reason, which is an effective media black out on the whole Civil War by the Main Stream Media. Stories may be carried every day on the BBC and other websites, but they are so lacking in detail, out of date and generally inaccurate, that they might as well publish nothing!
Only exceptional items gain any attention and the surrender of the near 450 Ukrainians received little attention and zero analysis. Had a couple of thousand others surrendered in the same way just days, that silence would have been hard to maintain and a major loss of initiative and momentum suffered by the Ukraine and its backers.

...

This part is strange, I think, as on hand you seem to claim the Ukrainians would have lost in case of a more extensive media coverage of the fights, but on the other hand you call for such a coverage?! If the first part was true (and I'm not saying if it is, or if it is not), it would be foolish if "Main Stream Media" (assuming Western and Ukrainian media, not the Kremlin Propaganda, of course) acted against interests of the Ukrainian Goverment, wouldn't it? Look, I don't know how it's in Bristol (by the way, I've never been to the British Isles), but believe me or not, here in Central Europe a majority of
the population doesn't want an expansion of the Putin Empire from Crimea to
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or wherever. But I admit I can't understand the support of Separatists by some Western people like in here: http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-33-6939.html#post299920
 

SampanViking

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The full situation map at last!

23sx8jt.jpg


Confirms the collapse of the cauldron and recapture of substantial territory in the rear.
Also shows the developing threat of the envelopment of Donetsk.

We also have a rerun of the 90's Bosnia style humanitarian convoys heading to Lughansk from Russia. We all know how the original episode finished!

My postings are going to be thin on the ground for the rest of the week so just have fun without me.
 

delft

Brigadier
My favorite radio station said in its news bulletin this morning that the parliament in Kiev has voted to close the gas pipelines transporting gas from Russia to EU countries.
 

Equation

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My favorite radio station said in its news bulletin this morning that the parliament in Kiev has voted to close the gas pipelines transporting gas from Russia to EU countries.

Yes, but Russia has other gas pipelines that can be sent to the EU. It's just that Russia can't make any money off from the one that goes thru the Ukraine.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
These are Ukrainian military troops, building improvised MRAPS.
[video]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6e6_1407760241[/video]

Sweet...it reminds of Mad Max scenario. But I'm sure they lose quite a lot of horse power with all that added weight from the armor plating and such.:eek:
 

delft

Brigadier
Yes, but Russia has other gas pipelines that can be sent to the EU. It's just that Russia can't make any money off from the one that goes thru the Ukraine.
It would halve the capacity of the gas pipelines. No problem for most EU countries but some, Hungary and Slovakia I understand, would suffer.
 
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