Equation
Lieutenant General
Right now there's media battle going on right now as both sides tries to push their narrative upon the world. You can hear and read all kinds of crazy accusation.
Crisis in the Ukraine
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
- Status
kwaigonegin
Colonel
depends!.. is there an AWACS flying nearby, satellite etc
? that alone would yield enough conclusive data to know EXACTLY what happened... or if the true innocent party has civilian or military radar readings of not just the heavy but of the SAM launch coordinates.Those type of data would give us significant insight into what happened here since this particular event was caused by a single external force which caused immediate and a total catastrophic hull loss and not typical of the 'usual' plane crash due to mechanical failures, hijackings, pilot error etc.
Assuming the BUK shot it down and no conspiracies on the part of the pilot, ATC and what not the 777 and her pilots would very likely not know anything until literally the last milisecond or so. At 33,000 it also unlikely they would've seen any missile trail etc. The ONLY thing they would have known is the actual explosion and .1 seconds later they're all dead.
At that altitude the entire plane would've depressurized immediately and exploded mid air. Everyone would've be dead long before the plane hit the ground.
Mr T
Senior Member
Yeah, but even if there was such data it would immediately be discounted by Russian nationalists and Putin apologists as having been falsified by the International Jewish Illuminati Conspiracy.
So we're supposed to believe that the Ukrainians deliberately shot down a civilian airliner to get the international community angry at the rebels - which they had no reason to do because they were already winning the ground war - and couldn't even upload their forgery on the right day? That doesn't strike me as being that likely.
But I guess it's better than the Russian theory that Ukraine was trying to shoot down Putin (despite the fact his flight plan had him going over Belarus).
Last edited:
depends!.. is there an AWACS flying nearby, satellite etc
I keep hearing this as though NATO is able to play the part of Umpire in this matter.
All I can say is that it seems people have forgotten that the US and NATO are not impartial observers in these matters. They were direct supporters of the Maidan protest movement and primary sponsors of the post coup Government. Anything that comes from this quarter that supports the position of their client, will be as distrusted and dismissed by the East, just as fully as statements supportive of the Self Defence Militia by Russia are dismissed by the West.
North Korea for the judge! Show some evidence for what you're saying as that's questionable at least so far.
It's a sad situation. People of firm ideology on both sides have already made up their minds about what happened to MH17. Any evidences to the contrary recovered or released would most likely to be dismissed by either party as propaganda or conspiracy. No neutral investigation would come out of this. This is no longer about the tragic loss of 298 people. It is about framing a narrative that is most beneficial to one's own strategic interests.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
I'm watching video on CNN said being the Gadfly launcher they said was used to shoot down the 777 being transported back to Russia also noted it had one missile missing. What happened to the other aircraft the rebels were bragging about to have shot down that was being used as evidence that the rebels were in possession of such a weapon? So it wouldn't be just one missile missing, would it?
Well that's the point Mace. The footage simply shows a partially covered BUK on a tractor, driving through a very indistinguishable part of the Ukrainian countryside. The Ukrainian narrative says "rebel BUK being transported back to Russia" but it could just as easily say "Ukrainian BUK being transported out of Donbass".
How are the likes of you and me ever supposed to know?
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Yes just like early footage of the crash site showed a damaged cylindrical object with fins on it. It was smaller than a Buk missile. Was it really there or fake?
The whole point of the post was that this offered something that should if true be verifiable a incontrovertible fact. These alleged transcripts were uploaded early today and the original links will have been noted, even if subsequently deleted. The links and the date stamps should be "provable" and if so raise some very difficult questions.
Ukraine winning on the ground? Have you been on holiday or asleep?
Until midday on the 17th the situation in the Donbass was this:
The Southern Brigade of the Ukrainian army was surrounded and hemmed against the Russian border and being taken apart, piece by piece - want to see the pictures?
Last weekends armoured assaults on Lugansk had been defeated and Ukrainian forces were falling back and giving up villages that had recaptured.
On top of that Europe was not following America's lead on Sanctions and could not even agree who to replace Rhumpy and Frumpy with as President and Foreign Representative of the EU, as Old and New Europe countries were blocking each others candidates, deadlocked on the Russian policy.
Then MH17 happened...........
- Status