Crisis in the Ukraine

delft said:

Either a case of misidentifying the target by some trigger happy SAM unit or a false flag incident.

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False flag wound indicate that the unit responsible intended for this to happen. That they planed it. Since this is a Civilian Aircraft that would be a War crime. It would mean intentionally rerouting the MA17 into a Threat area and placing a SAM site in position. There is no evidence thus far of that kind of Conspiracy.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

False flag wound indicate that the unit responsible intended for this to happen. That they planed it. Since this is a Civilian Aircraft that would be a War crime. It would mean intentionally rerouting the MA17 into a Threat area and placing a SAM site in position. There is no evidence thus far of that kind of Conspiracy.

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True. It will be the task of the investigators to find out what happened. Perhaps someone can think of the third possibility but as yet I see only two.

Additional thought: It might mean putting the SAM unit in position and taking the first aircraft that follows the route without traffic control knowing anything about its. If more than a few aircraft each day take that route that would be sufficient.

delft said:

True. It will be the task of the investigators to find out what happened. Perhaps someone can think of the third possibility but as yet I see only two.

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A third possibility is that, since the plane was being guided by Ukrainian air traffic control, it was deliberately sent into the war zone.

It would be interesting to see how many other civilian planes have overflown Donetsk in the recent week. We know that all the previous MH17 flights skirted wide of the hot zone.

Is it possible that someone was trying to fire a warning shot at a possible oncoming enemy fighters that crossed the Ukraine/Russian border and therefore miscalculated the missiles trajectory? If Russian separatist are responsible for the downing of the flight MH17 that can explain their lack of experience in mobile SAM system and radar identification the signals between a civilian and a military one. My point is these things are not easy to operate. You can't flip on the power switch and a push a button when something appears on a the radar screen. It has to be some well trained team familiar with the system in order to work it effectively. Could Russian and the FSB send some field agents to help out the Rebels on using this? That's a possibility we have to wait and see.

solarz said:

A third possibility is that, since the plane was being guided by Ukrainian air traffic control, it was deliberately sent into the war zone.

It would be interesting to see how many other civilian planes have overflown Donetsk in the recent week. We know that all the previous MH17 flights skirted wide of the hot zone.

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A false flag doesn't want to advertise so the fewer people know about it the better. But these are clearly matters for the investigators to look at.

I find it interesting that someone had a camera device ready from near after impact. Did the person see the aircraft come down? Since there was a single plume of smoke, that's a sign the aircraft was almost intact including fuel when it crashed not blown apart at 30000ft as reported.

Just watched a MH17 broadcast on BBC, the reporter said Ukrainian security service has confiscated air traffic control recordings of conversions between them and the pilots of MH17.

According to Malaysian airline's official statement, MH17 was ordered by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33000ft instead of 35000ft as the flight plan had requested.

Media Statement 4: MH17 Incident

2. Altitude

MH17 filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000ft throughout Ukrainian airspace. This is close to the ‘optimum’ altitude.

However, an aircraft’s altitude in flight is determined by air traffic control on the ground. Upon entering Ukrainian airspace, MH17 was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000ft.

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kwaigonegin said:

At this point in time most accounts are pointing to the pro independence group responsible but like what everyone else should do let's wait for more verifiable data.

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Realistically, is ANY "verifiable data" going to be available? The black box recorders won't note who fired the missile or where it was fired from. Putin would never admit Russia was involved in this in any fashion, as it would be (amongst other things) a huge loss of face for him. The rebels won't admit to committing a war crime.

So short of some remorseful rebel coming forward and saying "I did it", I guess it will be down to governments drawing the most likely conclusions given the facts known.

maybe 20 years form now T. Mean Time your going to Have Russia and the ProRussians Point to Ukraine and The Ukrainians point to the ProRussians and the Russians. With Conspiracy Theories, Claims of False Flag and worse filling all the papers web sites and more for decades.

Now here is a thing.
Its a link to a You Tube video that was brought to my attention earlier this evening.

It is an allegation over a false flag and relates to the video put on by the Ukrainians this morning to cover the alleged intercepts between Militia and a Russian Military Officer.
The key allegation of this video is that it shows an original creation date of July 16th, a day earlier than the crash being discussed.

I venture into this sort of Conspiracy theatre with extreme caution, but something like a digital date stamp does seem like pretty hard currency. Still I know that my understanding of modern technology is falling further and further behind each year.

So am putting to you guys who mostly seem far more ahead of the curve in understanding the technicalities of this. Are the Ukrainians busted by hard cold technological fact or is this just another turkey? I note that is already showing well over 100,000 hits and increasing rapidly.

Here you are

[video=youtube_share;28MrASx-RiM]http://youtu.be/28MrASx-RiM[/video]