Libya or Palestine aren't 50 million nation. That's the big difference. And the biggest threat to Russia after China. A strong pro-western country aspiring to be a part of UE or NATO? Forget it. They need a buffer. Too bad for Ukrainians as Russians are masters of this work and won't let it down like they did in Syria as it's too close to their doors.
Crisis in the Ukraine
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
- Status
These repeated encirclements of ukrainian units, if confirmed, suggest the existence of serious issues with command and control. as units advance one would expect that flanks and rear to be covered or at least monitored by friendlies. However, frequent instances of ukrainian forces' forward units getting cut off from its main body implies that their movements were not sequenced and/or synchronized properly, this is a big no-no in modern operational theory.
We shouldn't wish on the Ukrainians the continuation of the current criminal regime. It targets the electricity supply in the towns and cities it attacks thus depriving the people of electricity and drinking water.
Besides we must not forget that it shot down MH17. It has been obstructing investigation of its crime ever since. When I mentioned the possibility of a false flag operation it was just one possibility among several. By now it is the only possibility. No evidence has been published by Kiev or its sponsors besides the early mention of easily forged social network postings. No answer to Russian evidence. And the media, even in The Netherlands, have been strangely silent on the crash the last weeks.
Broccoli
Senior Member
Negotiations with Russians? Putin want's the Eastern Ukraine for Russia. After easy annexation of Crimea he probably thought that getting Eastern Ukraine was going to be equally easy, but for his surprise Ukrainians made a decision to fight back instead of letting Putin steal their lands.
After Russians shot down MH17 downs it sealed their fate in Ukraine. Yes, they call themselves Russian therefore i'm going to say that Russians shot it down.
Zool
Junior Member
The problem with that narrative is that this is a Ukrainian Civil War at the core. You may wish to paint Russia as the prime mover in the conflict due to bias or some such, but the fact remains internal divide is driving things, with multiple factions making up the West Bloc & East Bloc respectively.
Russia & NATO both have regional interests which they are acting on. But the root of this is Ukrainian. Otherwise you would not have seen the population of Crimea vote for repatriation with Russia or the hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians that continue to flee their country to Russia -- they would have gone west.
As for MH17... Facts are facts and we do not have them. But anyone who knows the world knows the Media is a powerful tool used in Geopolitics. That the calls for forceful investigation have died speaks volumes. Western Media is like a dog with a bone - if it's real and they've got it, they won't let it go. Draw your own conclusions.
lol nobody thought annexing eastern ukraine was gonna be easy, i doubt putin even wanted it. and the surprise for me was actually the ineptitude as exhibited by the ukrainian forces in swiftly putting an end to the uprising. russian or not those militants did not have a comprehensive command structure, no heavy weapons, and were small in number. it was only through abhorrent performance of the ukrainian forces early on were they allowed to persevere and morph into a national crisis. i think the head of armed forces early in the campaign had been dismissed, but i would have put him in jail.
as for MH17 sealing russia's fate, its impact on the course of events on the ground had again been surprisingly little. and now it has been all but forgotten by the media maybe until the preliminary report comes out.
After all Igor Girkin is well know international Ukrainian democratic activist...
Pfff... save those games for your own room and keep from the real discussion.
Those aren't Ukranians as you would like to portray the war between Russia and Ukraine as the civil war. Those are Russian 'soldiers of fortune' who wouldn't blink an eye if they had to choose between independent Donetsk or your head...
Last edited:
Exactly, and those Bukks have been used very effectively against Ukrainian aircraft, transports, helos and fighters, those boys are Merks, they know what there doing, and it would be an extremely naïve poster who does not see the link back to Mr. Putin. This is a very old game, it has been played for a long time, and as they say in the movie "Casablanca", time to round up the "usual suspects". Retaliation for the popular uprising that sent a Russian surrogate packing, but I digress. Of all of the old "Soviet Satelights", Mr. Putin most desired the Ukraine, and he has most of what he set out to gain, this is just "payback" for showing the world what kind of character he really is.......and to show the rest of the world, (think BHO, that he will do what he darn well pleases).......
Zool
Junior Member
I guess the easiest way to respond to this would be to reference the second paragraph of my post, which you failed to quote after the first:
You can call these people "Russian Soldiers of Fortune" or Martians for that matter; it does not change the reality that this is a Ukrainian Civil War being fought primarily by Ukrainian Citizens. Which side of the conflict they stand on does not change their national identity. Even less so what you decide to call them on this forum.
Honestly after reading some of your previous exchanges with Sampan, I was not going to bother with a reply. However I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt. You appear to approach this from a highly anti-Russia perspective and perhaps you have good personal reason to do so. But the best discussions take place when a subject is looked at objectively and with real facts. That's also how solutions are found.
Cheers
- Status