Crisis in the Ukraine

tphuang · Jul 17, 2014

Broccoli said:
Another statement from terrorist commander at same time when plane was shot down.

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"We don't have weapons what can shoot that high". Except of course BUK.
View attachment 10055

Please tone down your accusations until we get more fact. Since it's diplomatic nightmare for Russian government to shoot down a civilian airliner, there is no reason to think Russian government wouls want to shoot down a Malaysian airline.

Also, the word here is "rebels", not terrorists. And Pro-independence rebels are not the same thing as Russian gov't.

delft · Jul 17, 2014

Lufthansa has stopped flying over Eastern Ukraine, according to a Dutch radio station.
Does anyone knows which airlines have flights to Ukrainian airports?

SampanViking · Jul 17, 2014

Well, one small but significant porky pie being spread by the Ukrainians is that it could not have been them as they have not faced any air threat.
Previously true until today.
Now doubtlessly being rapidly forgotten, the main story of the day until the downing of the 777 was this

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A Ukrainian security spokesman has accused Russia's air force of shooting down one of its jets while it was on a mission over Ukrainian territory.

Ukraine's defence ministry said: "It is likely that [the hit] was carried out by air-to-air rockets from the Russian air force which were patrolling the border in a pair."

So today is the day that the Ukraine accuses Russia of attacking its territory with its Aircraft. This surely means that today is the day that all of Ukraine's air defences will have been turned off, including its most sophisticated long range systems and today is the day that an Airliner is hit at thirty six thousand feet!

The only other possible explanation could be that several SA-17's were fired at the AN-26 and that one of them was shaken off by somehow managed to reacquire the 777 as a target. Now I am no SAM expert, but it does sound highly unlikely to me. Maybe somebody else may be better informed?

Bernard · Jul 17, 2014

SampanViking said:
Well, one small but significant porky pie being spread by the Ukrainians is that it could not have been them as they have not faced any air threat.
Previously true until today.
Now doubtlessly being rapidly forgotten, the main story of the day until the downing of the 777 was this

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So today is the day that the Ukraine accuses Russia of attacking its territory with its Aircraft. This surely means that today is the day that all of Ukraine's air defences will have been turned off, including its most sophisticated long range systems and today is the day that an Airliner is hit at thirty six thousand feet!

The only other possible explanation could be that several SA-17's were fired at the AN-26 and that one of them was shaken off by somehow managed to reacquire the 777 as a target. Now I am no SAM expert, but it does sound highly unlikely to me. Maybe somebody else may be better informed?

I don't understand this. People know their are unstable rebels in civil war countries like Ukraine. It might be cheaper to fly through these countries but it should be on the airliner to not take the chance and fly through these countries because rebels may want to make a point or example and do something drastic like this. They may have their hands on tech that can shoot down civilian airliners. Fly around or next best route

solarz · Jul 17, 2014

texx1 said:
This is the MH17 flight path.

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If you checked the flight paths of the previous flights, it usually went over Crimea away from the conflict area.

Checking the flight paths of previous flights, we can see a clear and significant deviation from the usual flight path, right into the middle of the warzone.

SampanViking · Jul 17, 2014

The Ukrainian air defences do have previous and fairly recently

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Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 crashed over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia. The plane, a Soviet-made Tupolev Tu-154, carried an estimated 66 passengers and 12 crew members. No one on board survived. The crash site is some 190 km west-southwest of the Black Sea resort of Sochi and 140 km north of the Turkish coastal town of Fatsa and 350 km east-southeast of Feodosiya, Ukraine. Ukraine admitted that the disaster was probably caused by an errant missile fired by its armed forces.[1]

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Ukraine finally admitted yesterday that its military shot down a Russian airliner that crashed into the Black Sea last week, killing all 78 passengers and crew.

Evhen Marchuk, the chairman of Ukraine's security council, conceded that the plane had probably been brought down by "an accidental hit from an S-200 rocket fired during exercises".

Although both Russia and Ukraine were almost certainly aware of the cause from the start, it took eight days for Ukraine to accept responsibility.

PanAsian · Jul 17, 2014

solarz said:
Checking the flight paths of previous flights, we can see a clear and significant deviation from the usual flight path, right into the middle of the warzone.

Now that's evidence of something fishy.

kwaigonegin · Jul 17, 2014

supposed SA-11 launcher in Donesk.

pic from pro pilot's forum

Miragedriver · Jul 17, 2014

Ukraine accuses Russia of shooting down jet (Su-25)

Russia has been accused of shooting down a Ukrainian jet plane, in a serious escalation of tensions between the two countries

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I will now get back to bottling my Malbec

thunderchief · Jul 17, 2014

Ukrainian air traffic control should have closed air space over warzone for passenger planes . I guess they didn't do that because they were afraid of political repercussions (i.e. admitting they don't fully control air space in that particular area) .

After that, it is anybody guess - both sides posses some older Soviet equipment that doesn't have precise IFF equipment . Usual Soviet doctrine was to declare exclusion zone and shoot SAMs on anything that flies, including own planes . And when they want to use fighters, SAM batteries are ordered to stand down . In Vietnam, you would have SAM days and fighter days over certain area, but not both of them at the same time .

Crisis in the Ukraine

tphuang

General

delft

Brigadier

SampanViking

The Capitalist

Bernard

Junior Member

solarz

Brigadier

SampanViking

The Capitalist

PanAsian

Major

kwaigonegin

Colonel

Miragedriver

Brigadier

thunderchief

Senior Member