Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
You need to change your idea of "incomplete". For the data they have published, they are complete, including efficacy and safety, etc for a defined group of people. It is definitely ok to publish them. They didn't hold parts of the data, such as some older adults died or some people developed serious side effects, etc. They listed them all in their studies. At the time when they published the trial data, they hadn't finished the data collection for other groups yet. They clearly indicated those. that is not incomplete data.

Their clinical trials only lasted 3 months. Everyone knows it. Media knows it. The general public knows it. How can anyone know what will happen 10 years from now when you only came up with the vaccine 6 months ago? No one expect them to wait 10 more years to publish their data. And no one can afford to wait.

The nuances of the available data are for professionals to evaluate any ways. No lay person in the general public can make sense of any of their data any ways. It is up to the professionals to figure out what can be done and what cannot be done. They make recommendations and the governments take recommendations from the professionals and implement them. Again as an example, they don't have data for young kids yet. So they tell the government "we cannot give it to the kids yet." So the government issues order "no vaccines for kids yet". Their data show it is safe for adults to have it. Based on this data, they recommend to give it to all adults. Then the government starts advertisement and encourages everyone to get it. This is how a policy is made in every country.
The statement in Pfizer report was "Collection of phase 2/3 data on vaccine immunogenicity and the durability of the immune response to immunization is ongoing, and those data are not reported here". These data's completeness is not defined by me, but by their trial organizer. I can't see how I or anyone could change that definition.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
Thank you! I study basic molecular mechanisms of cancer, so it's not so much limited to certain types of cancer. With that being said, because of the protein that I am focusing on, my study has more relevance in pancreatic, colon and lung cancer.
Wow again. I had a growth thing in my main pancreatic duct which was monitored over several years with MRI scan and biopsy before removing it. It had not turned malignant but they have been known to. All is good now. Another relative of mine died of lung cancer of the extremely rare variety for which there known treatment for.
 

vesicles

Colonel
The statement in Pfizer report was "Collection of phase 2/3 data on vaccine immunogenicity and the durability of the immune response to immunization is ongoing, and those data are not reported here". These data's completeness is not defined by me, but by their trial organizer. I can't see how I or anyone could change that definition.
Again, it is not about completeness. It is about continuation. Many people can study the same subject for decades. For each publication, it is always only one aspect of many components that can go on for decades. In fact, I am 120% sure that these subjects WILL be followed closely for as long as possible, decades if possible. And you will continue to see their publications in the years to come. In that sense, it is never complete. Take aspirin for example. If you search aspirin, a drug that was made in 1899, people keep finding new side effects and new uses of aspirin. Even a few years back, Harvard published a new aspirin clinical trial that followed 30,000 nurses for 20 years and evaluated side effects and the ability of aspirin to prevent cancer. Is that complete? That study says nothing about the cardiovascular effects of aspirin. Is it complete? In the grand scheme of things, it is not. But for the purpose that particular study, it is complete. In the case of the Pfizer and Moderna clinical trials, the goal of the published study was exactly for a short-term (3 month) clinical trial. For that purpose, that study is complete.

Please just keep in mind that this is usually and typically done in biology/medicine. There is no conspiracy in it. No one is trying to intentionally mislead people. Given the difficult situation, this is the best anyone can do. I myself cannot think of another way.

Again, their goal is to roll out the short-term efficacy and safety as soon as possible. They need this kind of information to decide whether they should give these vaccines to the people with highest risk so as to save their lives. One more day they spend to wait means another 4000 lives lost on that day. And one more day they wait means another chance the virus gets to mutate to a new form to escape the vaccines. So they need the short-term efficacy and safety ASAP to decide that decision. And that's the exact goal of that study. They achieved it and published it. Once they settle that most urgent question, they can take a breather and wait a little while for the less urgent data. This is a way of damage control.

All clinical trials are done in this way. Chinese ones, American ones, German ones, etc. When the Chinese ones come out, you will see that they are done in the exact same way. As I said before, a Chinese phase 3 trial didn't even include subjects older than 59. Is that complete? No, we have many many people older than 59. But that's their design based on their initial plan for how they wanted to implement their vaccination protocol. They wanted to exclude the group >59, in order to speed up the vaccination process. Incomplete? Yes. But still an effective way to implement their vaccination program.
 
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vesicles

Colonel
Wow again. I had a growth thing in my main pancreatic duct which was monitored over several years with MRI scan and biopsy before removing it. It had not turned malignant but they have been known to. All is good now. Another relative of mine died of lung cancer of the extremely rare variety for which there known treatment for.
I am glad it is benign. Keep monitoring it. Don't remove it unless it's necessary. Sometimes, a large benign tumor keeps many small ones at bay. It actually guards the bad ones for you. Good luck!
 

KYli

Brigadier
UK has different results over the efficacy rate of Pfizer vaccine. Not sure it is due to the UK variant or different criteria.
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  • First Pfizer dose cut symptomatic infection risk by 64% in over-80s and by 65% in younger adults
  • For those who had second dose, protection rate increased to between 79 per cent and 84 per cent for all ages
  • The Oxford-AstraZeneca jab is similarly robust, according to official data set to be released in coming days
 

KYli

Brigadier
Though I'm not anti-vax and even feeling happy when vaccines arrive in Cambodia. While I'm not amount priority group, even if I were entitled to take the shot, at this stage, I feel hesitated. Let's wait others to take it first, I'll be the last one to take it.

At the end of the day, it is always risk vs reward. For countries such as NZ, Cambodia, China, and Australia, people don't feel the urgency to take the vaccines. For countries such as UK, US, and Canada especially those who are over 65, they might think very differently.
 
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