Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Apr 11, 2020
in response to someone in some other thread I posted Mar 26, 2020


it sounded like a lot at that time to me (apparently not to the other guy though), and sixteen (16) days later they'll likely have 1k dead in one day:
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EDIT now noticed it'd mean 10k dead in total reached today

Last updated: April 11, 2020, 09:56 GMT

tn_uk-flag.gif

United Kingdom

Coronavirus Cases:

73,758

Deaths:
8,958
and
3 hr 44 min ago
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This is missing the point; I'm not saying that competitive media is useless. If you could actually convince more people that your nation is benevolent and should be supported in its endeavors, it's obviously a wonderful thing that will make your challenges go by smoother. But the same question I asked to him, I ask to you:

What do you propose to do to make this propaganda more effective? How do you envision your improvements defeating the current obstacles set up against CCP propaganda to better people's views of China?

I am replying as I am of the same thought as @j17wang

For one there needs to be mastery of the living languages and cultures of the target audiences, that means conversational expressions rather than traditional idioms, common rather than spelling bee or SAT vocab, being sensitive to subcultural diversity, sensitivities, ways around them, and yes psych 101. For someone sufficiently knowledgeable about life in two places, in this example China and the US, it only takes a few minutes of watching either propaganda/competitive media or even relatively objective/domestic-targeted media from both to see that though far from perfect the usual US skill level is above that of the usual Chinese skill level.

International relations is just like personal life, of course one would primarily rely on one's own abilities and skills, but the game of friends, likability, and trust plays a significant part in whether the opportunities arise to allow one to demonstrate or exercise one's abilities and skills, as well as whether there is support in one's life's unavoidable moments of frailty. The US is behaving like an unsecure bully lost in their own lies and everyone can see it, but many have been giving it a lot of leeway not just because of its hard power but because of goodwill that has been built up with skillful communication and indeed benevolent behavior over time.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I am replying as I am of the same thought as @j17wang

For one there needs to be mastery of the living languages and cultures of the target audiences, that means conversational expressions rather than traditional idioms, common rather than spelling bee or SAT vocab, being sensitive to subcultural diversity, sensitivities, ways around them, and yes psych 101. For someone sufficiently knowledgeable about life in two places, in this example China and the US, it only takes a few minutes of watching either propaganda/competitive media or even relatively objective/domestic-targeted media from both to see that though far from perfect the usual US skill level is above that of the usual Chinese skill level.

International relations is just like personal life, of course one would primarily rely on one's own abilities and skills, but the game of friends, likability, and trust plays a significant part in whether the opportunities arise to allow one to demonstrate or exercise one's abilities and skills, as well as whether there is support in one's life's unavoidable moments of frailty. The US is behaving like an unsecure bully lost in their own lies and everyone can see it, but many have been giving it a lot of leeway not just because of its hard power but because of goodwill that has been built up with skillful communication and indeed benevolent behavior over time.
So what exactly is the suggestion on improvement? Hire some ABCs and be more hip or something?

I strongly disagree that the US skill level is above that of the Chinese skill level. I think America's skill level in propaganda is basically a clown show at this point. The president goes on and says one thing, other officials and experts immediately shut him down. Politicians say things that contradict themselves on live air. Have you heard Pompeo's most recent interview? Someone should be fired for messing up that badly just once but it's actually typical of him! Officials like Giuliani and Conway are routinely the butt of jokes for their ignorance and stupidity. The majority of Americans not only distrust their government; they feel like it's a total joke and laughing stock. Chinese citizens, on the other hand, have much more confidence in their government. Many people may say that the media isn't telling the whole truth or distorts things (which is a normal and healthy level of skepticism seen in most countries), but almost everyone has the utmost confidence in the actual competence of the CCP to protect them and propel the nation forward to global power. Same with the trade war; half of Americans are saying how stupid their own administration is for starting this war and taxing Americans (with a tariff designed to fool stupid people into thinking that the taxes are on China) while in China, basically all Chinese are on board to stand by their government and fight. Everything equal, half the Chinese people should be calling for the CCP to compromise.

I feel that the greater influence of American media over the world over China's is an old tool that was built by the nation through the decades of being the world leader. I feel that tool is being worn down into scrap as America's word now induces more derisive laughter than approval worldwide and I think China's media influence, although still much smaller, is growing.

To summarize, I think Chinese propaganda is more effective in uniting Chinese citizens domestically than American propaganda is at uniting American citizens domestically and neither are effective at swaying each other's citizens. Globally, the US propaganda is more effective but waning quickly because it is using up the old reserves of its traditional leadership while Chinese propaganda is less effective but rising as countries begin to realize more and more how incredibly competent China is.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
The mainstream media including TV is now reporting the earlier cases of coronavirus in France. But they're still keeping the narrative that it still started in China. That's why they were hardly touching any reporting that earlier cases were found. They don't want to entertain that China might've just identified it first when it was already around the world. Italian doctors were suggesting it before and then you have that case of a Japanese man who got sick after visiting Hawaii months before Wuhan. And you know they'll work hard against that narrative because it might mean it didn't start in China and if that were the case, there will be an explosion of nationalism in China against the US.
 

Shaolian

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just an example here in Malaysia, recently for news updates on COVID-19, I've been tuning in more to CCTV (Chinese language), Phoenix News (Chinese) and CGTN (English).

I've noticed that their presentation has been "slicker" compared to previously, but more importantly, I now trust their infos more than the reality tv / tabloid shows that are the western news outlets.

These Chinese channels are being broadcasted by the Astro satellite tv provider which has a de facto national monopoly, and is therefore considered national television.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
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LONDON (Reuters) - A study by French scientists which suggests a man was infected with COVID-19 as early as Dec. 27, nearly a month before France confirmed its first cases, could be important in assessing when and where the new coronavirus emerged, experts said on Tuesday.

French researchers led by Yves Cohen, head of resuscitation at the Avicenne and Jean Verdier hospitals, retested samples from 24 patients treated in December and January who had tested negative for flu before COVID-19 developed into a pandemic.

The results, published in the International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, showed that one patient - a 42-year-old man born in Algeria, who had lived in France for many years and worked as a fishmonger - was infected with COVID-19 “one month before the first reported cases in our country”, they said.

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French case has to wait in line.

US mayor that has tested positive for coronavirus antibodies, believes he got infected in November.

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plawolf

Lieutenant General
I keep saying, international Chinese media are not competent enough, we live in a propaganda war, the little Qatar with Al Jazeera managed to influence the whole world, Russia with RT managed to influence the whole world, RT is the most followed media channel on youtube, and its propaganda is effective

China ? totally incompetent media, how do you want to target a western audience with panda pictures and classical music? wake up ! we live in a propaganda war

And if I keep saying this, it is because I love China and I want it to adopt more effective propaganda, and if I take the example of Qatar or Russia, it's because it shows that countries even hated in the west can create effective propaganda in the west.

China has remained in Soviet style propaganda (like North Korea), that can't work in the West, the Russians have remarkably succeeded in adopting a very effective propaganda style, that is why all Western governments are afraid of RT

This current COVID19 crisis has done more to expose and undermine western propaganda in months than the Russians have managed in decades.

Western propaganda and brainwashing has been so pervasive and persistent for so long that it is a fools game to try to reverse it in the west through your own propaganda.

Chinese state media might seems to be ‘loosing’, but that is only because they are not really bothering to ‘play’ this rigged game.

Despite all the endless mantra of the western MSM about Chinese ‘propaganda’, they never back up their charges with actual examples where a Chinese state media has blatantly lied. At best they can point to examples of stories they thing that are important not being reported in China, but I cannot recall a single instance where they have managed to catch China out on a lie in recent decades.

If China were to play by western propaganda rules and be on a remotely level footing, they would have to yell endless lies just like western MSM, but that will just supply the western propaganda machine perfect ammunition to use against China.

In addition, you need to understand and realise just how important and how much of western leaders’ attention and time is taken up with ‘media relations’ aka propaganda. The press secretary is one of the most senior positions in the White House, and almost the first question western politicians ask themselves, if not out loud to advisers when dealing with an issue, is how will this look in the press?

This catastrophic perversion of priorities is at the heart of the west’s initial, and America’s continued failure to handle the COVID19 crisis. Instead of asking medical experts what needs to be done and doing it, most western leaders asked their media advisors how that would look in the press and dithered and wasted precious time and their only opportunities to nip this crisis in the bud because of their concern about ‘optics’.

What China has and is continuing to do is focus on making the right choices that is best for the country and people and not worry about how that might look in the press.

That is the right strategy.

You don’t need to spin nearly as hard or lie through your teeth when the facts are on your side. And as China continue to growth stronger, richer and more advanced, the need to convince western audiences continue to diminish.

Russia needs propaganda games because their raw power alone isn’t enough to deter western nations making moves against them.

China doesn’t care about external propaganda because if western nations are stupid enough to damage Chinese interests, China can and will damage their’s right back.

As China continues to growth, the need for trying to actively convince the west publics continues to diminish. I mean, does anyone in China actually care what the Indian press rant and raves about China? Not really, eventually it will be the same with western propaganda.
 

bajingan

Senior Member
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Let me list the usual suspects that will join in; us, canada, uk, australia basically all the anglos
the eu countries most likely will stay neutral
China should also seek damages for the hiv/aids virus since it was first discovered in the us and its failure to stem the spread of the disease early on.
And according to soviet intelligence it was also made in the lab lol
 

0Fox0

New Member
Registered Member
Part 1 of 2

@Wangxi @manqiangrexue The media landscape is heavily titled in favor of the west. However, that doesn't mean the West is guaranteed a victory. They are winning a lot in the psychological war against China in large part because Chinese media is very incompetent.


Let me make this one point super clear. China does NOT need to lie and should NOT lie. The biggest asset China has is its credibility. The biggest liability the Western media has is its credibility. People often think, propaganda = lying. It’s not. Propaganda is about influence and ultimately to get people to behave in the way that you want. The best propaganda is all truth. The Western media lies so much because the facts are against its imperial agenda. It’s impossible for them to call China a colonizer of Africans unless they lie, cherry pick, exaggerate, etc. China needs NOT and should NOT copy that aspect of Western media.



Manqiangrexue, you asked, what can be done. Here are a few easy ideas off my head:

1. Be undetected. China's state media is instantly ignored because the audience has been conditioned by western propaganda to view anything from Chinese state media as propaganda. Fund alternative media that doesn't scream "I am Chinese state media". This is the west's playbook. They control all kinds of media in the background. The audience mis-perceives these biased sources as "free and independent" when they are anything but. Look up Operation Mockingbird and the book, Presstitutes, as examples.

As a corollary, always expose Western propaganda sources such as anything funded by the CIA’s National Endowment for Democracy (NED).



Whenever the West reports “secret anonymous credible sources tell us”, just bring up wmd in Iraq and Mike Pompeo’s “we lied, we cheated, we stole”.



The west lies so much that it relies on the audience to be ignorant. Your job is to prevent that from happening.


2. Destroy your adversary’s perceived credibility. The Western media lies all the time. This is one of their biggest weaknesses to attack. How to attack credibility? Make use of classic examples like wmd in Iraq. For example, when the west started accusing China of creating or releasing this virus, the Chinese should have instantly painted it as a propaganda campaign reminiscent of wmd in Iraq. This is extremely powerful and impossible to fight because everyone knows about wmd in Iraq by now. Everything the West says would be viewed with extreme skepticism.


Another example is to bring up the false flag anthrax attack. The Americans alleged an rogue state attacked them and it turned out Fort Fort Detrick the origin of the attack.



3. Cherry pick. Learn to focus and unfocus. Focus on what you want the audience to think about. Unfocus about the things you want them to not think about. Let's see how the west does this.


They focus on Wuhan lab. They unfocus on the usa, which has orders of magnitude more BSl4 labs.

They focus on Chinese researchers possibly doing biological weapon research. They unfocus on the usa's NIH funding Wuhan labs to participate in bat coronavirus research.

They focus on the "possibility" of a bioweapons leak from China. They unfocus on the over 1000 biological weapons leaks in the usa and most recently in 2019 by Fort Detrick, where mysterious coronavirus/covid-19 like illnesses appeared. They unfocus on American's extensive history of biological warfare against its own citizens, Cuba, North Korea, China, etc.


4. Get to the point. Don't aimlessly ramble for 25 minutes. Take a topic and reduce your arguments to a few talking points and repeat them everywhere with minor changes. This employs the sleeper effect and social proof to get people to accept the idea.

5. Control the frame. Frame the debate the way you want. This is a key Western propaganda technique. The Western media is framing this as a "Chinese cover up". State media showed some facts like the timeline. That's ok. It would have been better to show how the us knew and warned Israel and NATO allies that China was going to suffer from a coronavirus related cataclysmic event before the Chinese knew. Chinese media should hyper focus on this point because of all the grave implications this has - Westerners had pre-knowledge, did NOT warn China, did NOT warn the world, did NOTHING to prepare, and most importantly, how can they possibly know this if they were innocent...

A second opportunity is for China to frame the debate with "the West is hiding its nefarious activities from the world" by using the facts: CDC hides data, prevents testing, gag order/firing whistleblowers, holding secret meetings in biological warfare planning rooms, had pre-knowledge in November about a potential cataclysmic event in China before the Chinese even knew.


A third opportunity is to bring up the 2001 American anthrax false flag. Insinuate that this could be another American anthrax false flag. Again, this is next to impossible for the West to counter.



6. Maximize your aesthetics. Many Chinese male reporters and some of their Chinese male anchors and almost all Chinese male guests are repulsive to look at it and listen to. They sound like racist nerdy effeminate caricatures (eg
) when they speak English with their thick accents. No one wants to listen to them. Wang Guan is one of few reporters who actually looks and sounds aesthetic enough to be a reporter. Almost every other Chinese man, including one of their faceless translators (who sounds like a girl), creates negative soft power every time they open their mouth or appear on screen.

7. Projection and hypocrisy. The West is currently waging a global propaganda campaign against China and calls it "news". China debunks their lies and the West calls that "disinformation". This inverting of reality is a staple of Western discourse.


China doesn’t need to use this since the facts are on its side, but it’s important to expose these Western tactics when they show up.


8. Imagine what your adversary is scared to death of the world discovering. Hyper focus on that. Once again, from point 5 - "CDC hides data, prevents testing, gag order/firing whistleblowers, holding secret meetings in biological warfare planning rooms, had pre-knowledge in November about a potential cataclysmic event in China before the Chinese even knew."

Focus on that. Frame the debate around these points. Keep accusing them of a cover up. Use their hypocritical cries for "transparency" against them. Say things like "The world demands transparency from America. Why are they so fearful if they have nothing to hide. What are they hiding? "


9. State opinions as facts. China doesn’t really need to do this because this is more of a liar’s tactic. Notice how the West states lies as fact…



“Everyone knows coronavirus originated in Wuhan”

“How do we make China pay for this crime against humanity?”

“The Chinese regime covered this up”



10. Push negative associations. I would start Chinese news about coronavirus/covid-19 with things like



“In the ongoing usa propaganda/disinformation campaign to deflect blame onto China, the trump administration….”



“America’s Fort Detrick, an infamous biological weapons lab was involved in the 2001 anthrax false flag…”



“In 2009, the American CDC was responsible for the American H1N1 virus, killed at least 300 000 globally. They did nothing for 180 days and killed hundreds of thousands around the world. “ make sure to show victims crying over deceased loves ones combined with images of unfeeling CDC directors to amp up the emotional punch.



11. Make them look bad. America loves to brag about its human rights. So the world how little they care about human rights when the rubber meets the road.



Show America stealing supplies from their “allies”



Show the bold faced lie of “Chinese crap” being desperately stolen by America.



Then you can cap it off by contrasting it all with the absurd talking points from their propaganda memo eg “America is the greatest humanitarian the world has ever seen”



12. Be on the offense and attack first. The attacker ALWAYS has the advantage of speed and controlling first impressions. From the beginning, the West waged a global coordinated propaganda campaign to blame everything on China.
 

0Fox0

New Member
Registered Member
Part 2 of 2

13. Focus on affecting people’s system 1 thinking, which is automatic, unconscious, reflexive, emotional, and quick. This is how the majority of the human population makes choices. It’s not by cold hard logic. This type of thinking is heavily influenced by the emotional content, sounds, music, aesthetics, images, colors, words, connotations, slogans, stereotypes. That is why Western media’s attacks against China focus on isolated anecdotes/stories instead of data/facts. It’s impossible to claim the Chinese are oppressing Uyghurs when you see millions lifted out of poverty combined with huge gains in sanitation, literacy rates, longevity, gdp per capita, etc.



It’s a lot easier when you show ONE crying woman (who could be a paid actor) with ominous music playing in the background while the narrator makes spurious claims of trillions of organs being harvested by “blood thirsty communists” while crimson red blood bleeds onto the screen with a China communist flag waving in the corner.



14. Master the connotation of words. What is the difference between a regime and government. Regime is viewed as brutal, illegitimate, despotic, etc – super negative. A government is viewed as legitimate and fair – neutral, maybe positive.



That’s why Western media refers to the Chinese government as a authoritarian illegal despotic regime even though it has the highest approval rating in the world at 88%. In contrast, us congress has 9% approval. Which one is the regime, really?



15. Avoid being a useful idiot and stop repeating Western euphemisms.

Do not call western invasions an “intervention”.

Do not call the American empire a “liberal international rules based world order”

Do not call your ally’s governments a “regime”.

Do not call Western oligarchy/plutocracy a “democracy”.

Do not call Western political bribes/corruption “lobbying”.

Do not call American aggression, militarism, military threats “freedom of navigation exercises”



16. Your media content, at least in the beginning, needs to match with your audience’s beliefs, values, trends, etc. Unfortunately, the audience has been conditioned with Sinophobic hate by Western media for centuries. So, don’t try to gain sympathy for China or Chinese people. That will likely fail.



That same audience does have other beliefs that can be leveraged. Many do harbor suspicions about the deep state, the 1% oppressing the 99%, all wars are banker’s wars, etc. Instead of trying to gain sympathy for yourself, direct the hate towards the Western ruling class. A possible messaging attack would be framing the coronavirus/covid-19 as a failure of Western capitalism to provide for its people. Here’s a system that puts profits over people, where senators and CEOs abruptly quit and cashed out their stocks while the rest of you “little people” are left on your own. Look at the trillions in bailouts for the already super rich, while you get a measly $1200 check signed by The Donald. All this Wuhan CCP virus is just a distraction. Chinese citizens get free testing and treatment. Rents are temporarily suspended or waived. Salaries are subsidized by the state to prevent social economic destruction. The CCP works for the 99%. Western capitalism works for the 1%. The benefit of this approach is that you look like good, your adversary looks bad, and it will keep them internally fighting instead of focused on you.



17. On the credibility of Chinese and its alternative media. The perception of credibility is based on numerous factors: aesthetics (looks, sounds, feels professional/attractive, works properly), referenced by others (social proof), authority (eg PhD and age), appears neutral/fair/unbiased/objective, etc.



To expand on the last one, one of the biggest reasons the Western MSM media enjoys a high perceived credibility is that it APPEARS to be fair. The Western MSM media constantly exposes Western criminality, which makes it APPEAR unbiased. In contrast, the Chinese MSM media APPEARS heavily biased because it doesn’t seem to (from what I can tell) expose its own crimes openly. Chinese media planners will need to find the correct Overton Window to address this problem. The West MSM has a large Overton Window, which deceives people into seeing it as as free and independent. Imagine a spectrum of news and whether you can touch the topic…



Super good news ---- Western media can talk about it

Very good news ---- Western media can talk about it

Good news ---- Western media can talk about it

Neutral news ---- Western media can talk about it

Bad news ---- Western media can talk about it

Very bad news ---- Western media can talk about it – eg “interventionist” war

Super bad news ---- Western media CANNOT talk about it - eg war crime committed by usa troops, coup in progress against Venezuela or Hong Kong,



Western NON-MSM does cover the full spectrum of news. However, they are not influential enough to make a difference. Any Western non-MSM that does become influential enough will get censored. Facebook and Google has either censored or crushed the search engine results page rankings for such Western NON-MSM sources.



Factors that advantage the West greatly and cannot be defeated for a while (but they can be with enough time and effort):

1. The West enjoys a huge global echo chamber. Some of the biggest news wires are Western, which means their propaganda gets repeated far and wide. This is key reason for their ability to spread and lie and have it go viral and become “accepted truth” within weeks.

2. The English language is still dominant

3. There’s a large body of Western propaganda that has been normalized/accepted as true eg movies show Americans defeated Nazis, all “communists/socialists” are evil, all Tibetans were exterminated, the British Empire was “benevolent” and just wanted to spread enlightenment values and railroads, the Opium Wars were a fight for “free and fair trade”, First Nations people just died from diseases “naturally”, etc.



There’s a lot more than needs to be said about this topic but this should suffice.
 
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