Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
You compared the guy to Mike Pompeo and you also called for him to be fired. I don't think it would be okay for someone to post an article that painted Pompeo in a bad light and then called for him to be fired in this thread on this forums. Such a post surely may be deemed off-topic or inappropriate or engaging in the realm of politics by the mods on here if standards and precedents were applied evenly.

So if Mike Pompeo was spreading conspiracy theory about the origin of COVID-19, I couldn't post the news and say he's not fit to be a diplomat and should be fired?

Anyway, we are now definitely off-topic and I'm not responding further to this.
 
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Phoenix_Rising

Junior Member
Michael Osterholm is a scientist working for University of Minnesota. If you remember "zombie deer disease", he was working on it.
20200312141715832.png
One of his employee has a close friend working in Milano now. According to what she said in e-mail:
1, doctors have to pick out some patients in same severe sickness.
2, doctors treating COVID-19 no longer take test themselves, tested positive doctors keep working in infectious zone.
3, only a small number of healthy doctor left, and they stay in tiny dedicated areas for non-covid patients.
4, many patients in their 40s are at horrible condition
.

————————————

My interpret:
1, overloaded, overwhelmed, whatever you call the status quo, it happened because the doctors and vulnerable people were hit unprepared.

Foreign politicians and "jounalists" and "scholar prostitutes" keep saying China's number is fake, but use China's R0 and CFR to ease their people.
This is crime.

By any reasonable logic, the reality should be opposite.

Fact: China hammered a massive lockdown to slow the spread, and initiated social survalliance system to track all patients' interact with others, collected and screened all suspects again and again.
One lady I know got 25k samples tested in a single day of yesterday in the lab she works at, the peak of their workload was 37k samples per day.
Result of logical guess:
The numbers are close to truth, because China has 99% capability to track and test everyone and officials have 0 motivation to hide, especially after both Party No.1 in Hubei and Wuhan were discharged.

BUT, China's effective countermeasure against the disease unintentionally "helped" foreign professional liers downplay how serious COVID-19 itself is!

Have you noticed that the R0 on media was somewhere around 3 ?
JOKE.
Yeah, by China's data, by data from a place where entire population under lockdown forcefully and volutarily for more than a whole month.
You know how good this COVID-19 is at spreading? By research thesis from Xi'an Jiaotong University (consider it as one of Ivy's in China), the natural R0 is 6.47 EXCLUDED asymptomic infection, worse than smallpox.

Wear the damn mask, please!
Ask these 2 questions to those who refuse wearing mask:
If there is a STD in rampant, would you keep the condom ready before f**k anyone no matter you are healthy or not?
You can choose whether, when and where to loose your belt, but do you have the choice of stop breathing?

Next aspect, the CFR. Ratios came out from their mouths varies 0.1%-2%, right?
JOKE AGAIN.

That only happens when you have enough medical assets. CFR 1% is something only happens when all patients could have oxygen, ventilator and intubation when needed!

China "pulled the plug from socket" in other provinces. Only 20000 patients in a system works for 1 billion population, therefore they were treated by all methods. At last we got a CFR of 0.9% outside Hubei.

Mother China mounted 40k medics including 10% of ICU specialists in whole nation, 22k ventilators, and tens of million PPE into Hubei. Within 2 weeks, the 3rd Bureau of CSCEC built negative-pressure rooms enough for 2500 patients to have intubation.
Hubei now have a CFR of 4.51% (3056/67781).

You can never solve the problem until you look at it with reasonable attitude and courage to face ugly facts.
IMG_20200312_190942.jpg
para1:
About 10% patients were a-sympyom at the beginning.
Overall 40-50% just stay mild in whole precedure, those you see in temporary hospitals on TV. They can dance and drinking some herbal medicine is enough for them. T-hospitals work mainly for stop spreading, prevent mild cases getting worse, send the degrading patients to general and special hospitals.
para2:
The rest half patients are complex. Many of them turn to severe even critical for different reasons.
Wuhan's medical resources is abundant, at the highest of developed country level, higher than US in many factors. It just get penerated by the outbreak.
China has sent 1/10 of ICU specialists from nationalwide to Wuhan.
para3:
There is no data of "Severe case ratio and R0 without medical interfere" in this world, for now. China could not reach an ethical level to create such a "controlled group". However, if this data somehow occured, it can help human to understand COVID-19 accurately, and set a solid database for dealing with new contagion in the future.

This is the true danger of COVID-19 patients:
In early phases of Wuhan, 38% patients turns to servious illness. According to a real frontline doctor, it means needs "deep external respiratory help", aka "ventilator at least".

Summarized from 2 news topics I found.
1. 国家卫健委医政医管局监察专员郭燕红介绍,目前武汉重症患者占比已从初期的38%下降至18%。
2. 国家卫健委:武汉重症病例占比从31.6%下降至22% 最近3天下降趋势明显;
1. National Health Commision inspector Guo Yanhong reports that Servious Case Ratio has dropped from 38% to 18% in Wuhan.
2. NHC: SCR in Wuhan dropped from 31.6% to 22% in last 3 days, an obvious trend of decrease.


Search how many ventilators there are in your city/state/country, then ×3, ok you get a number of maximum treatment capacity for COVID-19 if the SCR is 33% in perfect scenario (no medic down, no reserved/occupied ICU, private clinics keep open, etc.)

Do not "assume" something could miraculously bank a virus. It is a natural phenomenon and it will follow its own pattern.

If the patient number breach that capacity, your doctors will surely face the same choice of their Italian and Wuhan counterparts!

PROTECT YOURSELF IS GOOD FOR EVERYONE.

Conclusion of point 1:
If the country don't break the virus with resolute response or overwhelming power, this virus will overload the medical system. I am afraid the social order would be endangered next.

My interpret on point 2.
Heroism, duty and professional honor is shining.
Let's hope it is not twilight. Human have limit, don't push them too hard or they will break.
Italy has already begun recruiting medical students and retired doctors.
IF Italian government has a plan to rotate the exhausted fronline doctors, there is still hope to maintain the medical system functioning.
If these young and old are just simply put into frontline, things gonna be terrifying.
Why?
Italy is desperately excavating all possible medics when 2/10000 of population infected.
Until today, Hubei has 12/10000 (49978/57m) confirmed cases.
5× more patients is coming to Italy in a month, and that is the low number only happens if they can slow the spread down to Hubei's post-quarantine level. I hope they can.
Irresponsible behavior is causing terrible consequences everywhere.

Conclusion: Cover your mouth and nose with filter clothes called facemask. By stopping droplet, you reduce the chance of being infected. By stayin healthy, you are saving lives of others especially the doctors!



3, Chronic patients will have a difficult time. Forget about visiting doctors in next several months, they will be super busy if lucky enough not get sick.

4, the spin & b**ls**t trick finally bankrupt.

At first they say it only happens to China ("mainlanders") for the eating and health habit, prove it by using pictures of bat dishes in Palau and Indonesia, just as how they use photos S.Korea and Nepal police beating riot people's shit out toillustrate brutal oppression of "chinese regime". So true, so kind.

Then they say it can only become an epidemic in China because of its political system.
My country thus extended its quantitive superposition. She is both technologically backward and able to publish the gene sequence in 10 days, both uncaring to people and willing to cut down half economy to keep people healthy, both lacking international info-sharing and inviting WHO invesitigate team with experts from 5 continents including 2 USA fedral employees.
I use all both+and correctly because China is apparently a Schrodinger's cat in supermega scale.

As the disease goes abroad, soon Eastasians are considered poisonous by surrondings, whilst the actual race of patients are not published due to classification law.

Then, Caucasian, Latino, Aryan and Semitic people began to fell on sickbeds, too many for medias to hide. They made last desperate attempt of diversion, the age.

At last, you get people eat no exotic foods, keep good heal habits, born and grow in G7 countries with high GDP per capita and capitalism representitive democratic politcal system, is caucasian race and at age of 40s, lying on beds inhaling tanked oxygon.

Conclusion:
Have had enough fun in blaming game, how about shut the irrelevant up and keep media open to real professionals in your country, really start to care your own people, plus listen some experience of good and fault from China?

Epilogue:

3 basic conditions are universal to all epidemic: it needs source of pathogen, vulnerable people, mean of spread.

Source of pathogen is difficult to find for the COVID-19 is able to infect in incubation or without symptom.
With enough collective effort, the patient, infected and suspect would gradually be pulled out. That's mainly the job for government, but you should be aware that everybody you met is a possible carrier.

Vulnerable people could only be reduced by vaccine. Virus doesn't care your race, age and gender. True, someone are born immune to a certain disease but that difference is unperceivable and untransferable so stop dreaming about it.

The means of spread is what you can do something on. COVID-19 is carried by droplets and close contact.
Wear a mask, it stops emitting droplets if you are sick, also prevent inhaling droplets if someone you met is sick.

Stay calm, keep organized, keep mind in protection, we will get through this.
 
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Quickie

Colonel
You're now just repeating my points. Since you agree with me that (quoting you) "If you're using the data from beginning to the end (or current value), it doesn't really matter if it's "the sum of" or it's the "average value" since mortality rate is a ratio, meaning they both end up having the same value.", then why were you using two formulas in your post as if they were different:



You wrote as if those two were different, because the second, you suggested, required the conditions to be relatively stabilized to be accurate, where as the first, you suggested, was simply an identity.

The only logical explanation of what you wrote was that in the second formula you were averaging over the numbers from the more recent period of time rather than over the entire outbreak. So in order to be charitable, that's how I interpreted.

If you were indeed averaging over the entire outbreak, then I'm just not interested in that figure. I don't know why you even brought it up as I said very clear in my first post in this little discussion that I'm interested in the recent fatality trend given the expanded healthcare capacity in Wuhan, not over the entire outbreak. I suggest you reread earlier posts if you somehow forgot what how this discussion started.

And I've spent a lot of time explaining to you why "daily death"/ ("daily discharged+ daily death") for a single day is not a good estimation of the trending fatality rate because there is a time induced distortion. I'm going to do this for one more time, if you still don't get it, then so be it.

When I estimate (very roughly) the trending fatality rate after the expansion of healthcare in Wuhan, I want to know what is the likely outcome of a patient given the amount of medical resources available per patient in the last few weeks (I made my intention very clear in my first post). Ideally I want to trace all patients with the same day of onset, say Feb 15, and see what's their outcomes. But I don't have the data. If I calculate "daily death"/ ("daily discharged+ daily death") for a single day as you suggested (remember you did suggest it, that's how this discussion about time lag distortion started), I would be looking at the numbers of discharged mild cases with on average more recent time of onset, and the numbers of discharged serious cases/death with on average earlier time of onset. But since the number of new cases have been dropping, the first numbers will be smaller than it would be if we look at mild cases with earlier time of onset. Hence the time lag distortion.

This is all really simple. Just a variation of why we shouldn't look at cumulative death / (cumulative discharged + cumulative death) as a good estimation of the overall CFR in the early days of the outbreak, because death takes longer.

You wrote as if those two were different, because the second, you suggested, required the conditions to be relatively stabilized to be accurate, where as the first, you suggested, was simply an identity.

The only logical explanation of what you wrote was that in the second formula you were averaging over the numbers from the more recent period of time rather than over the entire outbreak. So in order to be charitable, that's how I interpreted.

That is because saying the average of something is usually synonymous with considering a sample part of the whole. Saying the sum of something usually means the sum of the total.

The only logical explanation of what you wrote was that in the second formula you were averaging over the numbers from the more recent period of time rather than over the entire outbreak. So in order to be charitable, that's how I interpreted.

That is what was meant.

This is all really simple. Just a variation of why we shouldn't look at cumulative death / (cumulative discharged + cumulative death) as a good estimation of the overall CFR in the early days of the outbreak, .....
Putting words in people's mouths? In fact, I have said including the data in the beginning mess of the outbreak would skew the data.


As for the rest of your post, you're just repeating the same things that I've replied to.

Here is how I responded:

You are assuming a situation where for example 1000 patients suddenly got infected and admitted to the hospital at the same time. In such a case you will see a jump in death rate at around a certain time point (let's say 2 weeks) depending on the type of disease.

In the real world, such a thing doesn't happen. the 1000 patients that are infected that came in the last few days may have caught the virus at very different times during the past 10 days or so. See the difference?

------------------------------

The increase in the number of serious cases in proportion to existing cases could be due to the way they define it so as to provide better care to the patients at the later stage of the epidemic when ample resources are available. More important is when the death and recovered cases are actually recorded.

The thing is the actual data of the ending stage of the epidemic outside Hubei in China already proves that "your time lag distortion that would lead to a sudden increase in death cases at the end-stage" is wrong.

Just look at the data and graphs provided by supercat to see it for yourself.

Or check the data and graphs on this website.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Last edited:

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Here's a stat for u guys:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
"The study identified very few deaths among people under 40. More than 12,000 people in that age group were infected, but only 26 died. "
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Michael Osterholm is a scientist working for University of Minnesota. If you remember "zombie deer disease", he was working on it.
View attachment 58267
One of his employee has a close friend working in Milano now. According to what she said in e-mail:
1, doctors have to pick out some patients in same severe sickness.
2, doctors treating COVID-19 no longer take test themselves, tested positive doctors keep working in infectious zone.
3, only a small number of healthy doctor left, and they stay in tiny dedicated areas for non-covid patients.
4, many patients in their 40s are at horrible condition
.

————————————

My interpret:
1, overloaded, overwhelmed, whatever you call the status quo, it happened because the doctors and vulnerable people were hit unprepared.

Foreign politicians and "jounalists" and "scholar prostitutes" keep saying China's number is fake, but use China's R0 and CFR to ease their people.
This is crime.

By any reasonable logic, the reality should be opposite.

Fact: China hammered a massive lockdown to slow the spread, and initiated social survalliance system to track all patients' interact with others, collected and screened all suspects again and again.
One lady I know got 25k samples tested in a single day of yesterday in the lab she works at, the peak of their workload was 37k samples per day.
Result of logical guess:
The numbers are close to truth, because China has 99% capability to track and test everyone and officials have 0 motivation to hide, especially after both Party No.1 in Hubei and Wuhan were discharged.

BUT, China's effective countermeasure against the disease unintentionally "helped" foreign professional liers downplay how serious COVID-19 itself is!

Have you noticed that the R0 on media was somewhere around 3 ?
JOKE.
Yeah, by China's data, by data from a place where entire population under lockdown forcefully and volutarily for more than a whole month

Wear the damn mask, please!
Ask these 2 questions to those who refuse wearing mask:
If there is a STD in rampant, would you keep the condom ready before f**k anyone no matter you are healthy or not?
You can choose whether, when and where to loose your belt, but do you have the choice of stop breathing?

Next aspect, the CFR. Ratios came out from their mouths varies 0.1%-2%, right?
JOKE AGAIN.

That only happens when you have enough medical assets. CFR 1% is something only happens when all patients could have oxygen, ventilator and intubation when needed!

China "pulled the plug from socket" in other provinces. Only 20000 patients in a system works for 1 billion population, therefore they were treated by all methods. At last we got a CFR of 0.9% outside Hubei.

Mother China mounted 40k medics including 10% of ICU specialists in whole nation, 22k ventilators, and tens of million PPE into Hubei. Within 2 weeks, the 3rd Bureau of CSCEC built negative-pressure rooms enough for 2500 patients to have intubation.
Hubei now have a CFR of 4.51% (3056/67781).

You can never solve the problem until you look at it with reasonable attitude and courage to face ugly facts.
View attachment 58273
para1:
About 10% patients were a-sympyom at the beginning.
Overall 40-50% just stay mild in whole precedure, those you see in temporary hospitals on TV. They can dance and drinking some herbal medicine is enough for them. T-hospitals work mainly for stop spreading, prevent mild cases getting worse, send the degrading patients to general and special hospitals.
para2:
The rest half patients are complex. Many of them turn to severe even critical for different reasons.
Wuhan's medical resources is abundant, at the highest of developed country level, higher than US in many factors. It just get penerated by the outbreak.
China has sent 1/10 of ICU specialists from nationalwide to Wuhan.
para3:
There is no data of "Severe case ratio and R0 without medical interfere" in this world, for now. China could not reach an ethical level to create such a "controlled group". However, if this data somehow occured, it can help human to understand COVID-19 accurately, and set a solid database for dealing with new contagion in the future.

This is the true danger of COVID-19 patients:
In early phases of Wuhan, 38% patients turns to servious illness. According to a real frontline doctor, it means needs "deep external respiratory help", aka "ventilator at least".

Summarized from 2 news topics I found.
1. 国家卫健委医政医管局监察专员郭燕红介绍,目前武汉重症患者占比已从初期的38%下降至18%。
2. 国家卫健委:武汉重症病例占比从31.6%下降至22% 最近3天下降趋势明显;
1. National Health Commision inspector Guo Yanhong reports that Servious Case Ratio has dropped from 38% to 18% in Wuhan.
2. NHC: SCR in Wuhan dropped from 31.6% to 22% in last 3 days, an obvious trend of decrease.


Search how many ventilators there are in your city/state/country, then ×3, ok you get a number of maximum treatment capacity for COVID-19 if the SCR is 33% in perfect scenario (no medic down, no reserved/occupied ICU, private clinics keep open, etc.)

Do not "assume" something could miraculously bank a virus. It is a natural phenomenon and it will follow its own pattern.

If the patient number breach that capacity, your doctors will surely face the same choice of their Italian and Wuhan counterparts!

PROTECT YOURSELF IS GOOD FOR EVERYONE.

Conclusion of point 1:
If the country don't break the virus with resolute response or overwhelming power, this virus will overload the medical system. I am afraid the social order would be endangered next.

My interpret on point 2.
Heroism, duty and professional honor is shining.
Let's hope it is not twilight. Human have limit, don't push them too hard or they will break.
Italy has already begun recruiting medical students and retired doctors.
IF Italian government has a plan to rotate the exhausted fronline doctors, there is still hope to maintain the medical system functioning.
If these young and old are just simply put into frontline, things gonna be terrifying.
Why?
Italy is desperately excavating all possible medics when 2/10000 of population infected.
Until today, Hubei has 12/10000 (49978/57m) confirmed cases.
5× more patients is coming to Italy in a month, and that is the low number only happens if they can slow the spread down to Hubei's post-quarantine level. I hope they can.
Irresponsible behavior is causing terrible consequences everywhere.

Conclusion: Cover your mouth and nose with filter clothes called facemask. By stopping droplet, you reduce the chance of being infected. By stayin healthy, you are saving lives of others especially the doctors!



3, Chronic patients will have a difficult time. Forget about visiting doctors in next several months, they will be super busy if lucky enough not get sick.

4, the spin & b**ls**t trick finally bankrupt.

At first they say it only happens to China ("mainlanders") for the eating and health habit, prove it by using pictures of bat dishes in Palau and Indonesia, just as how they use photos S.Korea and Nepal police beating riot people's shit out toillustrate brutal oppression of "chinese regime". So true, so kind.

Then they say it can only become an epidemic in China because of its political system.
My country thus extended its quantitive superposition. She is both technologically backward and able to publish the gene sequence in 10 days, both uncaring to people and willing to cut down half economy to keep people healthy, both lacking international info-sharing and inviting WHO invesitigate team with experts from 5 continents including 2 USA fedral employees.
I use all both+and correctly because China is apparently a Schrodinger's cat in supermega scale.

As the disease goes abroad, soon Eastasians are considered poisonous by surrondings, whilst the actual race of patients are not published due to classification law.

Then, Caucasian, Latino, Aryan and Semitic people began to fell on sickbeds, too many for medias to hide. They made last desperate attempt of diversion

Conclusion:
Have had enough fun in blaming game, how about shut the irrelevant up and keep media open to real professionals in your country, really start to care your own people, plus listen some experience of good and fault from China?

Epilogue:

3 basic conditions are universal to all epidemic: it needs source of pathogen, vulnerable people, mean of spread.

Source of pathogen is difficult to find for the COVID-19 is able to infect in incubation or without symptom.
With enough collective effort, the patient, infected and suspect would gradually be pulled out. That's mainly the job for government, but you should be aware that everybody you met is a possible carrier.

Vulnerable people could only be reduced by vaccine. Virus doesn't care your race, age and gender. True, someone are born immune to a certain disease but that difference is unperceivable and untransferable so stop dreaming about it.

The means of spread is what you can do something on. COVID-19 is carried by droplets and close contact.
Wear a mask, it stops emitting droplets if you are sick, also prevent inhaling droplets if someone you met is sick.

Stay calm, keep organized, keep mind in protection, we will get through this.

Did you write all this? What are you on!? Lol
Absolutely, China put so much efforts in fighting this. The sacrifices the medics and others in contaning this is unimaginable.

And all the time, subjected to unwarranted criticism from certain countries, certainly MSMs. Some even go as far as stopping much needed humanitarian supplies! And continuing with supporting subversion in other parts of China!

So China had everything including the kitchen sink thrown at her. And yet, she emerged stronger, and better for it! And I couldn't be more proud for their achivement!
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
This pandemic will change fundamentally the word.

Level of international trade will shrink, most likely dramatically, with the movement of people as well.

The manufacturing of drugs and machines will be strategical industry, with possibly many other.
 

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
That is because saying the average of something is usually synonymous with considering a sample part of the whole. Saying the sum of something usually means the sum of the total.



That is what was meant.


Putting words in people's mouths? In fact, I have said including the data in the beginning mess of the outbreak would skew the data.


As for the rest of your post, you're just repeating the same things that I've replied to.

Here is how I responded:

You are assuming a situation where for example 1000 patients suddenly got infected and admitted to the hospital at the same time. In such a case you will see a jump in death rate at around a certain time point (let's say 2 weeks) depending on the type of disease.

In the real world, such a thing doesn't happen. the 1000 patients that are infected that came in the last few days may have caught the virus at very different times during the past 10 days or so. See the difference?

------------------------------

The increase in the number of serious cases in proportion to existing cases could be due to the way they define it so as to provide better care to the patients at the later stage of the epidemic when ample resources are available. More important is when the death and recovered cases are actually recorded.

The thing is the actual data of the ending stage of the epidemic outside Hubei in China already proves that "your time lag distortion that would lead to a sudden increase in death cases at the end-stage" is wrong.

Just look at the data and graphs provided by supercat to see it for yourself.

Or check the data and graphs on this website.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Then your average value estimation would also suffer from the time lag distortion I've described.

As I said repeatedly my model was simplified and the effects would be blunted in the real world, but it would be there. And no I never said the time lag would sudden increase in death cases at the end-stage. Rather it would lead to a higher daily death/daily discharged ratio toward the end of outbreak than it would otherwise be. I didn't say anything about the absolute number and I didn't say anything about the increase being 'sudden'.

The data outside Hubei isn't very helpful because the number of death outside Hubei is just too small. The time lag effect would be easily obscured. Let's wait for the Wuhan data. We're not that impatient, ain't we? Of course, even if we have the Wuhan data we couldn't really attribute its behaviors simply to the time lag or any other factor without doing a lot more research, which I have no time for. And even if the data turns out doesn't behave as I have predicated it doesn't mean the distortion effects ain't there. There might just be overwhelming counteracting factors. Sucks but working with real world data is always messy.

In any case, the increase in the proportion of serious case is probably not due to 'the way they define it so as to provide better care to the patients at the later stage of the epidemic when ample resources are available'. We have been on the 7th edition of NHC's COVID-19 diagnosis and treatment guideline for a while now, and the criteria for serious cases are set by the national guideline.

No, more likely the increase is a result of
"Using available preliminary data, the median time from onset to clinical recovery for mild cases is approximately 2 weeks and is 3-6 weeks for patients with severe or critical disease. "
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Mild cases recovers much faster than serious cases. Since the number of new cases keeps decreasing, the proportion of serious cases keep increasing. As the proportion of serious cases increases, caeteris paribus, the daily death/daily recovery ratio goes up. This is how the time lag distortion works. Really I feel I've made a good prima facie case why there would be a time lag distortion (whose existence seems to me to be rather obvious). Shouldn't you bear the burden to give reasons why you think there isn't one?
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Talking about double standard Here the CGTN show it clearly.As I said the right and the left in western country are the same they just use every possible mishap to skewer China left and right They must realy hate China the left maybe because China does not follow their prescription of democrazy nirvana And the right for hubris, insecurity and racism Either way they are the same
When China locked down Wuhan, The New York Times said it came at a great cost to "people's livelihoods and personal liberties." In contrast, Italy's lockdown was described as an effort to "contain Europe's worst coronavirus outbreak." How will double standards hamper the global fight against coronavirus?
 

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
This pandemic will change fundamentally the word.

Level of international trade will shrink, most likely dramatically, with the movement of people as well.

The manufacturing of drugs and machines will be strategical industry, with possibly many other.

Yes unfortunately this could be the beginning of a long decline of globalization. European unity will be questioned as Germany and France are proven not willing to help out Italy. I don't know what impact on EU it will have.

China will suffer, but not as much as the smaller developing countries. US and EU will want to bring the industries back, not to shift to some other Asian/African country where they cannot control during an emergency.
 
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