Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

vesicles

Colonel
I know sampling all 11million people in Wuhan is impossible, but it isn't required.

It's been some time since statistics class, but let's assume a worst case scenario which requires a confidence interval of 1, and a confidence level of 99%

You only need a **truly random** sample of 16616 people in Wuhan to determine the overall infection rate.

Yes, a power analysis would allow you to figure out a minimal sample size. However, how to choose a "truly random" sample set is an art. When we read a clinical paper, we typically spend most of our time evaluating their sampling table (typically Table 1 detailing the demographics of their samples). Have the authors picked a truly random sample? With a sudden viral outbreak like the COVID-19, it would become so confusing how you should choose your sample. Let's assume that we have 3 groups that try to conduct their own statistical studies. I can almost guarantee you that they will give you 3 completely different results because they have chosen different samples.

To be honest, my own feeling is that figuring out an overall infection rate would be a little pointless. Infection rate is dependent on so many different external factors, most of which unrelated to the contagiousness of the virus itself. A good example would be a comparison between Italians who love to hug and kiss and Chinese who wear face masks all the time. Also, China has administered strict quarantine and lockdown. In comparison, Americans downplay the virus and would not do anything major. We will have vastly different infection rates in these countries. Even when you compare Wuhan and the rest of China, you will get vastly different infection rates. What does that tell you about the virus itself? Nothing. Your chance of getting infected will differ so much when you go to these different countries.

A more effective way of looking at this thing is to figure out the main routes of transmission. Air? Fluid? Touch? Aerosol? Once we are clear of how the virus is transmitted, we can do things to protect ourselves. No matter how weak a virus (not very contagious) is, if you start kissing an infected person on the mouth, you will be get infected with almost 100% certainty. Even if you have something highly contagious like Ebola (air-transmitted), you will not get infected if you stay at home and isolate yourself.
 

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
ABSOLUTE bombshell from Freeze Point (China Youth Daily's renowned investigative journalism arm):

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Remember in earlier posts I mentioned in early to mid January hospitals in Wuhan hadn't been reporting new suspected cases of COVID19 to the Chinese CDC using the national infectious diseases direct reporting platform. Earlier it was suspected that a software problem might have prevented the doctors from reporting, but according to Freeze Point's new report, the Hubei provincial health commission, Wuhan municipal health commission, and city districts' health commissions together conspired to stop doctors from reporting new suspected cases to the Chinese CDC.
 

KYli

Brigadier
ABSOLUTE bombshell from Freeze Point (China Youth Daily's renowned investigative journalism arm):

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Remember in earlier posts I mentioned in early to mid January hospitals in Wuhan hadn't been reporting new suspected cases of COVID19 to the Chinese CDC using the national infectious diseases direct reporting platform. Earlier it was suspected that a software problem might have prevented the doctors from reporting, but according to Freeze Point's new report, the Hubei provincial health commission, Wuhan municipal health commission, and city districts' health commissions together conspired to stop doctors from reporting new suspected cases to the Chinese CDC.

This is not a bombshell. Nothing in this report we have not heard of. We just don't know if CCDC is as innocent as it claimed to be. Personally, I don't think anything they do would make much of a difference. The best hope is they would declare a lockdown of Wuhan and Hubei a few days early.
 
Cold and flu season is however winding down as the temperatures rise the population shifts from continuously reexposing themselves to each other in enclosed space to more open space activities. With reduced contact. That will shift the worries of Convid 19 to the Southern Hemisphere.
the US infection rate is probably at or nearing its peak.
oh man
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Yes, a power analysis would allow you to figure out a minimal sample size. However, how to choose a "truly random" sample set is an art. When we read a clinical paper, we typically spend most of our time evaluating their sampling table (typically Table 1 detailing the demographics of their samples). Have the authors picked a truly random sample? With a sudden viral outbreak like the COVID-19, it would become so confusing how you should choose your sample. Let's assume that we have 3 groups that try to conduct their own statistical studies. I can almost guarantee you that they will give you 3 completely different results because they have chosen different samples.

To be honest, my own feeling is that figuring out an overall infection rate would be a little pointless. Infection rate is dependent on so many different external factors, most of which unrelated to the contagiousness of the virus itself. A good example would be a comparison between Italians who love to hug and kiss and Chinese who wear face masks all the time. Also, China has administered strict quarantine and lockdown. In comparison, Americans downplay the virus and would not do anything major. We will have vastly different infection rates in these countries. Even when you compare Wuhan and the rest of China, you will get vastly different infection rates. What does that tell you about the virus itself? Nothing. Your chance of getting infected will differ so much when you go to these different countries.

A more effective way of looking at this thing is to figure out the main routes of transmission. Air? Fluid? Touch? Aerosol? Once we are clear of how the virus is transmitted, we can do things to protect ourselves. No matter how weak a virus (not very contagious) is, if you start kissing an infected person on the mouth, you will be get infected with almost 100% certainty. Even if you have something highly contagious like Ebola (air-transmitted), you will not get infected if you stay at home and isolate yourself.

All true.
But if you do select the subjects carefully enough, and increase the sample size somewhat, you should get a decent estimate of the overall number of infected in Wuhan.

And we're not interested in a comparison of the overall infection rate between countries/cities.

The overall infection rate in Wuhan - should be key to figuring out how much of the infected population will present with serious complications.

It is those serious complications that will overwhelm the health system.
 

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
This is not a bombshell. Nothing in this report we have not heard of. We just don't know if CCDC is as innocent as it claimed to be. Personally, I don't think anything they do would make much of a difference. The best hope is they would declare a lockdown of Wuhan and Hubei a few days early.

China CDC's claim of innocence is not new, but previously I haven't seen any first hand accounts from HCWs in Wuhan confirming local health authorities' efforts to withhold suspected cases from the Chinese CDC. That's what's new in this article. Well the article is by now 6 days old, so I guess it might not be a bombshell for you.
 
Yesterday at 7:45 PM
Yesterday at 7:53 PM ... and in fact it's much less than I predicted: 10149 (
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), looks like they've passed an inflection point:
Wuhan.jpg


let's see tomorrow
it's 12462 today (827 dead so far :-( according to
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)

predicting 14593 for tomorrow (March 12) using #12, 14, 16 and 18:
Wuhan_2.jpg
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Cold and flu season is however winding down as the temperatures rise the population shifts from continuously reexposing themselves to each other in enclosed space to more open space activities. With reduced contact. That will shift the worries of Convid 19 to the Southern Hemisphere.
the US infection rate is probably at or nearing its peak.

This statement is not accurate as it is not supported by the facts.

There are at least 21 more days of consistent cold weather, looking at the historical daily temperatures of New York and London for example.
At that point, the Easter break presumably means a lot of the children and parents staying at home instead of going out.
And the higher temperatures after Easter would hopefully reduce infection rates as well.

The average incubation period is now being declared as 5days in the UK, so let's work add a further delay of 5days as well.
That gives us a total of 26days.

But the number of new cases in the USA is DOUBLING roughly every 3 days.
This also applies to some of the other European countries I've looked at.

If the rate of new infections remain constant in the USA, it means:
  • In 6 days time, it would be 4x higher
  • In 12 days time, it would be 16x higher
  • In 18 days time, it would be 64x higher
  • In 24 days time, it would be 256x higher
So the US infection rate is nowhere near its peak

This analysis also applies the to major European countries I've looked at.
 
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