Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[KYli]

It is strange that China has refused to approve even its own mRNA covid vaccines which are more effective. Now they have this deal with Moderna which specializes in mRNA technology.

Who said China didn't approve mRNA vaccines. At least one mRNA was approved. Multiple mRNA vaccines were deployed but didn't show better results than traditional vaccines and with much more side effects such as fever so didn't grant emergency approval.

Moreover, Moderna only said that it would invest 1 billion but no one said that any of its vaccines got approved yet. China has no plan to offer free vaccines anymore so it is likely that the sole intention is just allowed more pharmaceutical companies to invest in China. The article is another attempt to overblown a normal business transaction in order to politicize the situation.

 

[KYli]

tech transfer?

Doubtful, Moderna won't develop its vaccines in China. Manufacturing mRNA vaccine is low tech. China already has many mRNA plants and Pfizer also has deal with Fosun for contract manufacturing. The deal doesn't offer much for China as China probably is looking for being a export hub.

However, attracting more pharmaceutical companies to setup research, clinical studies, manufacture plants or contract manufacture are still a good strategy. Although, companies that only want to make money without commitment would eventually lose out.

 

[henrik]

Who said China didn't approve mRNA vaccines. At least one mRNA was approved. Multiple mRNA vaccines were deployed but didn't show better results than traditional vaccines and with much more side effects such as fever so didn't grant emergency approval.

Moreover, Moderna only said that it would invest 1 billion but no one said that any of its vaccines got approved yet. China has no plan to offer free vaccines anymore so it is likely that the sole intention is just allowed more pharmaceutical companies to invest in China. The article is another attempt to overblown a normal business transaction in order to politicize the situation.

This is strange as Moderna is now investing in a country that they know will not approve foreign mRNA vaccines. Most people in China ere being misled that mRNA vaccines are no good. But in fact, both mrRNA vaccines and traditional vaccines have their strengths. Especially, for something new like covid, for a country it is better to diversify your means of defending against it.

 

[KYli]

This is strange as Moderna is now investing in a country that they know will not approve foreign mRNA vaccines. Most people in China ere being misled that mRNA vaccines are no good. But in fact, both mrRNA vaccines and traditional vaccines have their strengths. Especially, for something new like covid, for a country it is better to diversify your means of defending against it.

Most Chinese are pragmatic and realistic. They choose the types of vaccines that have proven to be safe and effective and can be mass produce and distribute. Whatever mRNA vaccines' advantages or not is irrelevant when it comes to COVID as we know the difference is minuscule. As for the potential of mRNA, if mRNA vaccines can improve the survival rate of cancer patients or other more lethal disease, I am sure most Chinese won't have a problem injecting them because Chinese are pragmatic.

Again, China has no problem of approving mRNA vaccines. However, it would take years to get approved not months as these pharmaceutical companies except as there are no more emergency approval process anymore. In the end of the day, mRNA as a new type of vaccines needs to prove itself and the process might take years or even decades to do so. In the meant time, mRNA vaccines can get approved but for not lethal disease, most people probably might not want or need to vaccinate with mRNA.

I still think injecting a new type of vaccines into a billion people is not a great idea. More importantly, I think you and Moderna need to worry about thsoe anti-vaxx Westerners that are truly the problem as they are the reason why more and more people are not vaccinating themselves or their children which in the long term would be a serious problem for the Western society. Moderna and many pure play vaccine companies are highly at risk as more and more Westerners reject vaccines due to ideology war.

 

[henrik]

Most Chinese are pragmatic and realistic. They choose the types of vaccines that have proven to be safe and effective and can be mass produce and distribute. Whatever mRNA vaccines' advantages or not is irrelevant when it comes to COVID as we know the difference is minuscule. As for the potential of mRNA, if mRNA vaccines can improve the survival rate of cancer patients or other more lethal disease, I am sure most Chinese won't have a problem injecting them because Chinese are pragmatic.

Again, China has no problem of approving mRNA vaccines. However, it would take years to get approved not months as these pharmaceutical companies except as there are no more emergency approval process anymore. In the end of the day, mRNA as a new type of vaccines needs to prove itself and the process might take years or even decades to do so. In the meant time, mRNA vaccines can get approved but for not lethal disease, most people probably might not want or need to vaccinate with mRNA.

I still think injecting a new type of vaccines into a billion people is not a great idea. More importantly, I think you and Moderna need to worry about thsoe anti-vaxx Westerners that are truly the problem as they are the reason why more and more people are not vaccinating themselves or their children which in the long term would be a serious problem for the Western society. Moderna and many pure play vaccine companies are highly at risk as more and more Westerners reject vaccines due to ideology war.

It is not about the Chinese people being more pragmatic, but it is the government that refused to approve mRNA vaccines and misled the people. Because of this, they lost a big chance of testing and developing mRNA vaccines which have many application. In addition, the world now perceives that China does not have mRNA technology, which is not true.

Especially, for something new like covid, for a country it is better to diversify your means of defending against it. For example, 200 million doses of mRNA vaccines, is just 3 doses for 65 million people. This is not going to pose a big risk for the whole country.

 

[Dolcevita]

It is not about the Chinese people being more pragmatic, but it is the government that refused to approve mRNA vaccines and misled the people. Because of this, they lost a big chance of testing and developing mRNA vaccines which have many application. In addition, the world now perceives that China does not have mRNA technology, which is not true.

Especially, for something new like covid, for a country it is better to diversify your means of defending against it. For example, 200 million doses of mRNA vaccines, is just 3 doses for 65 million people. This is not going to pose a big risk for the whole country.

I for one approve the Chinese government taking a cautious approach on COVID19 mRNA vaccine. Much is still unknown about the mRNA technology and the potential risk to general public health is not sufficiently understood.

A very close relative who had 5 COVID-19 mRNA vaccine is now suffering from multiple immune system related disease at a relatively young age. There has been insufficient information available to public to evaluate any contribution the mRNA vaccine may have. I sometimes wish I had not taken the COVID-19 mRNA but was effectively forced to do so by government policy approving only mRNA vaccine and my need to travel.

 

[KYli]

It is not about the Chinese people being more pragmatic, but it is the government that refused to approve mRNA vaccines and misled the people. Because of this, they lost a big chance of testing and developing mRNA vaccines which have many application. In addition, the world now perceives that China does not have mRNA technology, which is not true.

Especially, for something new like covid, for a country it is better to diversify your means of defending against it. For example, 200 million doses of mRNA vaccines, is just 3 doses for 65 million people. This is not going to pose a big risk for the whole country.

Can you stop this nonsense?

1. Western countries were hoarding mRNA vaccines at the beginning. If China ever relied upon mRNA vaccines, China would be foolish and doomed. Since the Chinese government is pragmatic, they choose traditional vaccines that they have experience with and can mass produce so China never became a hostage in the vaccine diplomacy. LET ME REMIND YOU THAT the WESTERN POWERS HOARDED mRNA vaccines that even EASTERN EU NATIONS WERE FORCED to IMPORT CHINESE N RUSSIAN vaccines until they got threatened to not to do so. Do you forget how African and Latin American countries go to China for vaccines. Any vaccines is better than NO vaccines.

2. PFIZER lied about its mRNA vaccines and falsified the clinical studies and results. It is lucky that no serious side effects have been found out or at least not to our knowledge but mRNA vaccines have so many side effects that are slowly been revealed. China is wise not to approve mRNA vaccines.

3. Do you remember how Western pharmacetical companies priced their drugs such as paxlovid and many others. Western countries made billions selling useless drugs that propagated by MSM and social media. A few billions of money were wasted for many useless drugs. In the end of the day, the Chinese version of paxlovid is just as effective and ten times cheaper. These blood suckers pharmaceutical companies have sucked the blood of the West dry but the Chinese government isn't going to let them do the same to China.

4. China has already vaccinated its population before mRNA vaccines are widely available. You want Chinese to be experiment with this new vaccines on its people. It is irresponsible for China to do so. And these blood suckers tried to overcharge China for tens of billions for vaccines that don't have much advantages than traditional vaccines.

5. I don't know what the world views. But Moderna is desperately wanted to enter the Chinese market and offered all the goodies so at least those relevant companies want to invest in China and sell mRNA vaccines which made your whole statement foolish.

6. China has multiple mRNA vaccines. A few of those have been used to vaccinate tens of thousands of people in Yunnan and Guangxi. I think China has pretty good idea about mRNA and the kinds of side effects of such vaccines. Beside, Hong Kong can always provide a feedback as Hong Kong allowed mRNA vaccines. So no, China is smart to not approve mRNA vaccines that are over-hyped and religionized.

 

[SteelBird]

It is not about the Chinese people being more pragmatic, but it is the government that refused to approve mRNA vaccines and misled the people. Because of this, they lost a big chance of testing and developing mRNA vaccines which have many application. In addition, the world now perceives that China does not have mRNA technology, which is not true.

Especially, for something new like covid, for a country it is better to diversify your means of defending against it. For example, 200 million doses of mRNA vaccines, is just 3 doses for 65 million people. This is not going to pose a big risk for the whole country.

Do you know which country is the most successful in taming the coronavirus up to today? At the beginning of the pandemic, Vietnam, Taiwan and China seem to be the most successful countries and region to contain the virus by locking down the countries and some other strict measurement but when Omicron emerged, they all failed. One country, so far as I know, had been successful from the beginning until today. It's a small and poor country, yes, it's my country, The Kingdom of Cambodia!

And guess what? We started vaccination our population since Feb 10, 2021 (we enjoyed the whole 2020 with almost Covid free) and the vaccines in use were Sinopharm and Sinovac donated by China. AZ arrived in small number (300K+ doses) and Pfizer only came in at the late stage of the pandemic.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

It is not about the Chinese people being more pragmatic, but it is the government that refused to approve mRNA vaccines and misled the people. Because of this, they lost a big chance of testing and developing mRNA vaccines which have many application. In addition, the world now perceives that China does not have mRNA technology, which is not true.

Especially, for something new like covid, for a country it is better to diversify your means of defending against it. For example, 200 million doses of mRNA vaccines, is just 3 doses for 65 million people. This is not going to pose a big risk for the whole country

China did approve a Chinese MRNA vaccine earlier this year. A different Chinese MRNA vaccine (made by Walvax) has been in use overseas for more than a year as well.

China was able to have its cake and eat it too. It was able to quickly develop safe and efficacious traditional vaccines using proven technology for mass roll-out, and at the same time was able to develop and test mRNA vaccines. Why would it rush to rush mRNA rollout when 1) there was insufficient statistical data to suggest mRNA vaccines would be more effective at preventing serious illness and death and 2) there was insufficient data collected to show that mRNA vaccines were as safe as traditional vaccines.

 

[luminary]

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Nature.

“We modeled the epidemic dynamics of the Omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2 in China from Nov. to Dec. 2022, during a period when China moved from having strict COVID-19 policies (‘zero-COVID’), to little-to-no intervention efforts. We found that after full exit from zero-COVID, the Omicron variant spread at a very high rate of 0.42/day, with a doubling time of 1.6 days, during early and mid-Dec. before the incidence peaked around Dec. 23. Our point estimate is that 97% of the population (1.4 billion people) was infected during December, with a lower 95% credibility interval of 95% of the population (1.33 billion) and a lower limit in the sensitivity analyses of 90% (1.26 billion). With an infection fatality ratio between 0.1 and 0.2% for the Omicron variant19, we would expect between 1.3 and 2.6 million COVID-19 deaths in China during Dec. 2022 as well as Jan. 2023 (because of the delay from infection to death).”