Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[Petrolicious88]

Hong Kong was forced to reopen. The first big wave resulted in 8000 deaths. That is a fact. We all know that most of the deaths are seniors. However, China has 200 times more population than HK. It is a simple math that China would have many deaths even if it has higher vaccination rate than HK back then.

Sure, more people equals more deaths. The National Health Commisson told local health officials they have until Dec. 20th to handle the surge in patients. Hospitals are speeding up the expansion of intensive care units, increasing capacity, and closely monitoring vulnerable groups. So China is preparing. But again, if using Hong Kong as a model, then the vast majority of deaths will be among seniors 60 and older. Most non-seniors that are vaccinated/boosted will not become severely sick from Omicron.

Furthermore, Zhang WenHong, one of the top infectious disease experts in China, said 99.5% of all positive cases didn't have to seek treatment in hospitals. Most cases have mild or no symptoms, and should be handled by medical professionals in the residential compound via telemed.

That's false. After the Shanghai debacle, vaccination among elderly over 60 have been increased from 80% to over 90% and vaccination for over 80 years old have increased from less than 50% to 65%. There is always a debate if the vaccination among seniors should be mandatory but vaccination among seniors are way better now than back then. As for a new vaccination drive, it is obvious that a nationwide vaccination campaign would rollout somewhere in Q1, 2023 but now it has moved up to Dec.

65% seniors 80 or older vaccinated, but only 40% have received a booster shot of any kind. What have we been doing in the last 3 years.

Don't be naive. It is either rigid lockdown or ending of lockdown. It is a daydreaming to think you can have a middle road. The only thing is that the steps you take to end lockdown could be quick or slow so the spread of the virus wouldn't be overwhelming.

State Council announcement can be rolled out slowly but those protesters make the process in a turbocharge speed to reopen. Beside, I am saying you have no moral ground to mourn the deaths as you have advocated for reopening. Just don't be those suckers that advocating for reopening and turn around criticizing the government for not preventing deaths.

Not true. The recommendations from the State Council is the middle road. There has to be a middle road because Omicron is less deadly, but its highly contagious nature will lead to more lockdowns, which pushed a large sector of Chinese people to the limit. So lets not talk about my morals.

 

[KYli]

Sure, more people equals more deaths. The National Health Commisson told local health officials they have until Dec. 20th to handle the surge in patients. Hospitals are speeding up the expansion of intensive care units, increasing capacity, and closely monitoring vulnerable groups. So China is preparing. But again, if using Hong Kong as a model, then the vast majority of deaths will be among seniors 60 and older. Most non-seniors that are vaccinated/boosted will not become severely sick from Omicron.

Furthermore, Zhang WenHong, one of the top infectious disease experts in China, said 99.5% of all positive cases didn't have to seek treatment in hospitals. Most cases have mild or no symptoms, and should be handled by medical professionals in the residential compound via telemed.

Zhang WenHong is just another big mouth expert. There are so many of them in HK that they keep flip flop and say anything to get attention. So please don't bring him up. 99.5% don't need hospitals but somehow Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong all have to turn away patients or forcing them to wait outside for days before admission.

65% seniors 80 or older vaccinated, but only 40% have received a booster shot of any kind. What have we been doing in the last 3 years.

Didn't you know that China only began vaccinating elderly in June, 2021. Or you didn't even pay attention before.

Not true. The recommendations from the State Council is the middle road. There has to be a middle road because Omicron is less deadly, but its highly contagious nature will lead to more lockdowns, which pushed a large sector of Chinese people to the limit. So lets not talk about my morals.

There is no middle road period. Either lockdown or live with the virus, so called middle road is buying a short amount of time before fully reopen. I don't care about your moral. I just am saying you shouldn't try to pretend you care. A choice is made so live with it.

I just can't stand people who advocating for reopening and then turn 180 degree and crying for the deaths. Too many these people are roaming in Douyin and Weibo, I just don't think we need them here.

 

[Staedler]

I know from recent experience, HK public hospitals are early-discharging patients despite them still being severely ill and basically letting them die. So either hospital occupancy in HK is through the roof (just like the US) or you are asserting these public hospitals are purposefully killing their patients for no good reason.

 

[Petrolicious88]

Zhang WenHong is just another big mouth expert. There are so many of them in HK that they keep flip flop and say anything to get attention. So please don't bring him up. 99.5% don't need hospitals but somehow Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong all have to turn away patients or forcing them to wait outside for days before admission.

Zhang is the standing committee member of the Infectious Disease Branch of the Chinese Medical Association, and Director and Party Branch Secretary of the Department of Infectious Diseases at Fudan.

I assure you he's not going to say anything the Party won't allow him to say. You think he's talking BS? So is he lying because the Party now favors reopening? If that is true then you have to call into question all other experts you have so often quoted that hyped up the danger of Omicron. Were they lying because the Party favored lockdowns back then? Which one is it? Who's flip flopping

Didn't you know that China only began vaccinating elderly in June, 2021. Or you didn't even pay attention before.

I rest my case.

There is no middle road period. Either lockdown or live with the virus, so called middle road is buying a short amount of time before fully reopen. I don't care about your moral. I just am saying you shouldn't try to pretend you care. A choice is made so live with it.

Again the recommendations from the State Council is the middle road.

I just can't stand people who advocating for reopening and then turn 180 degree and crying for the deaths. Too many these people are roaming in Douyin and Weibo, I just don't think we need them here.

You think I'm complaining about deaths?.... when I've consistently said the vast majority of non-seniors will not get severely sick from Omicron if they are vaccinated and follow basic common sense.

 

[KYli]

Zhang is the standing committee member of the Infectious Disease Branch of the Chinese Medical Association, and Director and Party Branch Secretary of the Department of Infectious Diseases at Fudan.

I assure you he's not going to say anything the Party won't allow him to say. You think he's talking BS? So is he lying because the Party now favors reopening? If that is true then you have to call into question all other experts you have so often quoted that hyped up the danger of Omicron. Were they lying because the Party favored lockdowns back then? Which one is it? Who's flip flopping

I rest my case.

Many experts in HK are also working for the HK government. What is your point? Zhang is a big mouth and attention seeking expert. It doesn't matter who he represents or who he thinks he represents. Zhang can only represent himself. Don't try to claim Zhang represent the government. Only China CDC is upmost authority of the Chinese government. All other experts are just given out opinions.

I never quoted any Chinese experts for the discussion. Not sure why you trying to put things on my mouth. That is disrespectful. I only stated facts. The fact that HK had 8000 deaths during the Omicron wave. The fact that HK deaths have increased from 10 to 22 over the last two weeks. 22 deaths in HK per day would equal to 4400 deaths for China. These are all facts.

I don't know why you so care about what experts say. Facts are more important. What experts say mean shit? Fauci is talking ton of nonsense but he is the most important expert.

Again the recommendations from the State Council is the middle road.

You think I'm complaining about deaths?.... when I've consistently said the vast majority of non-seniors will not get severely sick from Omicron if they are vaccinated and follow basic common sense.

You just refused to face the reality. There are going to be many many deaths. And there is no middle road, whatever the Chinese government is doing is just buying more time.

 

[Petrolicious88]

Many experts in HK are also working for the HK government. What is your point? Zhang is a big mouth and attention seeking expert. It doesn't matter who he represents or who he thinks he represents. Zhang can only represent himself. Don't try to claim Zhang represent the government. Only China CDC is upmost authority of the Chinese government. All other experts are just given out opinions.

Reopening is signed off by Xi himself. So there is that. Zhang has half a billion followers online, and besides his medical credentials, he's also a member of the party. He cannot only represent himself with statements like that. He doesn't live in America.

I never quoted any Chinese experts for the discussion. Not sure why you trying to put things on my mouth. That is disrespectful. I only stated facts. The fact that HK had 8000 deaths during the Omicron wave. The fact that HK deaths have increased from 10 to 22 over the last two weeks. 22 deaths in HK per day would equal to 4400 deaths for China. These are all facts.

Fact is 96% of those 8000 deaths are among people 60 and older, many with comorbidities due to their age. That is also a fact. Another fact - had China started to vaccinate and boost seniors sooner - we wouldn't be facing the same situation.

I don't know why you so care about what experts say. Facts are more important. What experts say mean shit? Fauci is talking ton of nonsense but he is the most important expert.

Because they are experts. Lets be real, Fauci lost his expert credential as soon as he denied under oath US had nothing to do with gain-of-function research on Coronavirus.

You just refused to face the reality. There are going to be many many deaths. And there is no middle road, whatever the Chinese government is doing is just buying more time.

Maybe, but at least I'll be consistent.

 

[KYli]

Reopening is signed off by Xi himself. So there is that. Zhang has half a billion followers online, and besides his medical credentials, he's also a member of the party. He cannot only represent himself with statements like that. He doesn't live in America.

So what, not sure your point. You can worship Zhang all you want, who care. He has some medical credentials and is a member of the party, so what. It means nothing. Zhang doesn't speak for CPC. You can't make him CPC spoken man. Zhang says something, it doesn't make it a fact.

Fact is 96% of those 8000 deaths are among people 60 and older, many with comorbidities due to their age. That is also a fact. Another fact - had China started to vaccinate and boost seniors sooner - we wouldn't be facing the same situation.

What is your point. 8000 deaths are still deaths, keep repeating that they are mostly elderly and sick don't change that. If that made you feel better, go ahead repeating it again and again.

You want an immediate reopening but at the same time complain about China not ordering a nationwide rollout campaign for elderly. Do you even know that attempts to get elderly to vaccinate and boost have been ongoing for months now. It is just that elderly don't see the incentives to vaccinate. But getting additional 10% more over 60 vaccination is still quite an achievement.

Get your fact straight first. Attempts to get elderly to vaccinate never stopped. You don't even do your basic homework. It is just that the urgency and fear now are the factors that those reluctant elderly probably don't have excuse to delay further.

Because they are experts. Lets be real, Fauci lost his expert credential as soon as he denied under oath US had nothing to do with gain-of-function research on Coronavirus.

HK has a ton of these so called experts. You can worship them all you want. I only judge them for consistency and facts.

Maybe, but at least I'll be consistent.

No, you are not. You keep changing your position. You advocate for reopen but hide behind others and denying that deaths are unavoidable but at the same time trying to blame CPC and Xi for the deaths. You are not consistent at all.

 

[getready]

As predicted aus media propaganda usual crap journalism. For long time they admonished china on draconian zero covid and effects of tanking the Chinese economy. Yet now after loosening some restrictions, it's suddenly a disaster. Damned if you do, damned if don't.

Dun bother to read it and give clicks. This guy isn't even a health expert. He is the guy who normally gives doom and gloom reports on China economy.

 

[Petrolicious88]

So what, not sure your point. You can worship Zhang all you want, who care. He has some medical credentials and is a member of the party, so what. It means nothing. Zhang doesn't speak for CPC. You can't make him CPC spoken man. Zhang says something, it doesn't make it a fact.

Zhang's comment garnered 520 million views on Weibo in 6 hours. So somebody cares. And it's not just Zhang. Have you read what the CPC is saying through various state channels since October. I guess you don't care and only care about your facts.

What is your point. 8000 deaths are still deaths, keep repeating that they are mostly elderly and sick don't change that. If that made you feel better, go ahead repeating it again and again.

Yes, the vast majority people will not get severely sick or die from Omicron. That does make me feel better.

You want an immediate reopening but at the same time complain about China not ordering a nationwide rollout campaign for elderly.

Didn't I repeatedly say China shouldn't follow US style of covid management.

You want to extend lockdowns into 2023 while ignoring the fact that Omicron is less deadly, but more contagious.

Do you even know that attempts to get elderly to vaccinate and boost have been ongoing for months now. It is just that elderly don't see the incentives to vaccinate. But getting additional 10% more over 60 vaccination is still quite an achievement.

Get your fact straight first. Attempts to get elderly to vaccinate never stopped. You don't even do your basic homework. It is just that the urgency and fear now are the factors that those reluctant elderly probably don't have excuse to delay further.

There weren't any urgency or fear to vaccinate the elderly during Alpha and first half of Delta waves? Where was the urgency then if the elderly have always been the group that would've benefited the most from vaccination/booster shots.

HK has a ton of these so called experts. You can worship them all you want. I only judge them for consistency and facts.

No, you are not. You keep changing your position. You advocate for reopen but hide behind others and denying that deaths are unavoidable but at the same time trying to blame CPC and Xi for the deaths. You are not consistent at all.

loll. I've been pretty consistent regarding Omicron. Fact check yourself before you say are all about facts.

 

[KYli]

Zhang's comment garnered 520 million views on Weibo in 6 hours. So somebody cares. And it's not just Zhang. Have you read what the CPC is saying through various state channels since October. I guess you don't care and only care about your facts.

What is your point? I don't know what you are trying to say here. You want to worship someone, it is your problem not mine. We are here to debate not talking or worshiping some hotshot. Can you stop being a fanboy and stick to the point? I don't care if Zhang has 500 million views. 500 million views wouldn't suddenly make covid goes away.

All countries or city that opened up from Japan, South Korea, Taiwan to Hong Kong, their health care system can't cope with the first wave. Zhang or other Chinese experts can say whatever they want. It is not going to change the fact that Chinese hospitals would get overwhelmed.

Yes, the vast majority people will not get severely sick or die from Omicron. That does make me feel better.

Fine. Just don't pretend you care.

Didn't I repeatedly say China shouldn't follow US style of covid management.

You want to extend lockdowns into 2023 while ignoring the fact that Omicron is less deadly, but more contagious.

It is CPC's plan to reopen in April and May 2023. At least it is what CPC told foreign investors and media. Fact is Omicron crippled Japan health care system.

There weren't any urgency or fear to vaccinate the elderly during Alpha and first half of Delta waves? Where was the urgency then if the elderly have always been the group that would've benefited the most from vaccination/booster shots.

Of course, there is no urgency, China didn't have Alpha and Delta waves to begin with. Most elderly felt safe and didn't want to vaccinate. Hong Kong was not able to get many elderly to vaccinate until the first big wave and many deaths, those elderly finally got vaccinated. Without fear and urgency, the uptick of vaccination for elderly would be slow unless mandatory.

loll. I've been pretty consistent regarding Omicron. Fact check yourself before you say are all about facts.

Oh please, you want to reopen, you blame Xi for not reopening soon enough, you blame Xi for the deaths, you blame CPC for not vaccinating elderly before reopening but asking to reopen immediately. It is pretty clear to me that you are the type of people that wouldn't hesitate to blame CPC and Xi if the reopening resulted in too many deaths.

I have more respect for people who advocating for reopening but still acknowledging the fact that such reopening would result in many deaths.