Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
These typical western media will always try to exaggerate things way beyond what it really is. At this stage and at the vaccination rate, there won't be a swamping of the hospitals.

The issue really is the level of fatalities the Chinese authority is willing to take. Amazingly, at the present moment, we've just started talking about single-digit fatalities.
Counting healthcare by number of intensive care departments is extremely odd in the first place.

A higher level department unit will often have just as much monitoring and ability to handle patients as intensive care, with the only major difference being that intensive care are the sole caretakers of intubated patients.

Intubation is a last line treatment with low long term survival rate. There are different philosophies here, intubation can boost survival chances but is also associated with long hospital stays which decreases survival chances.

Instead of intubating, one can choose to treat unstable patients with Non invasive ventilator, oxygen and/or intensified observation.

It is likely that China has a low ICU department count for the same reason Sweden and NZ have low ICU counts. They follow a healthcare philosophy of only intubating patients that have absolute indications for it.

Lack of ICU spots in China has almost never been a complaint nor a factor that affects life expectancy. That implies the seriously ill are being adequately treated, not in intensive care but by higher treatment level departments.

Turkey has 10x as many ICU beds as China per capita, yet their overall life expectancy is lower. Sweden has a mere fraction of a single bed per capita higher than China, but has a much higher life expectancy.

From this we can see that different intensive care philosophies tell us very little about the overall state of a nation's healthcare.
 

s002wjh

Junior Member
Frankly, I haven't been following Western MSM for quite awhile.

Almost half of America's COVID death was avoidable?
most death are from anti-vax ppl, you know how ppl feel about vaccination in US. with other death from ppl who didn't take 4th booster shot. death from who have both original shot + 2 booster are rare.

also number 1 & 2 cause of death in US is heart disease and cancer, i think in china is stroke or heart disease. traffic death is also in the top, but that doesn't stop ppl from driving car, rode motobike or ride buses.
covid is not gonna be mild as the flu anytime soon, people have to start live with it, and take the booster annually

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  • COVID-19 vaccines continue to reduce the risk of dying among all age groups, including older adults, with the most protection observed among people with at least 2 booster doses.
  • Despite changes in circulating variants over time, adults ages 65 years and older who are unvaccinated continue to have a much greater risk of dying from COVID-19 than people who are vaccinated; the same pattern exists for deaths across all age groups. Additional booster doses provide added protection; for example, in August 2022, adults aged 50 years and older with at least 2 booster doses had 3 times lower risk of dying from COVID-19 than adults of the same age with one booster dose.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
also number 1 & 2 cause of death in US is heart disease and cancer, i think in china is stroke or heart disease. traffic death is also in the top, but that doesn't stop ppl from driving car, rode motobike or ride buses.
We need to get away from this thought that because other things can kill people, therefore COVID isn't that serious. When you die of a heart attack, you go alone. When you die in a car wreck, it's very unlikely you take many other people with you. But when you get infected with COVID, you start a chain reaction revolving around an R0 that can spread to tens, hundreds, thousands, etc... of people. COVID started from one person: patient zero; every one of the millions who died died because of that one person. That is the difference between a virus and a car accident. If getting into a car wreck can knock the whole city/state/country/world over like a stack of dominos, driving would be illegal.
covid is not gonna be mild as the flu anytime soon, people have to start live with it, and take the booster annually
You don't know how mild it will be and how soon so don't project your impatience onto others. Once you come out of Zero COVID, there's no going back so you better be damn sure. Right now, the US still has ~2,600 deaths a week from COVID. Once you see 10K Chinese people die every week, you couldn't beg the gods or offer your soul to the devil to give you a second chance to undo your mistake. So don't be so nonchalant about it here.
 

s002wjh

Junior Member
We need to get away from this thought that because other things can kill people, therefore COVID isn't that serious. When you die of a heart attack, you go alone. When you die in a car wreck, it's very unlikely you take many other people with you. But when you get infected with COVID, you start a chain reaction revolving around an R0 that can spread to tens, hundreds, thousands, etc... of people. COVID started from one person: patient zero; every one of the millions who died died because of that one person. That is the difference between a virus and a car accident. If getting into a car wreck can knock the whole city/state/country/world over like a stack of dominos, driving would be illegal.

You don't know how mild it will be and how soon so don't project your impatience onto others. Once you come out of Zero COVID, there's no going back so you better be damn sure. Right now, the US still has ~2,600 deaths a week from COVID. Once you see 10K Chinese people die every week, you couldn't beg the gods or offer your soul to the devil to give you a second chance to undo your mistake. So don't be so nonchalant about it here.
heart disease, cancer, stroke and traffic is some the top cost of death, more so than covid in US. US has been fully opened for a while now. alot americans is also anti-vax or didn't get the booster, which account for majority of covid death. so have latest booster lower the chance of death by a significant margin

as for how mild it gonna be, precisely no one know, but its already been 3 years now, so the chance of covid become mild as flu is pretty low. Hoping for covid to be mild as flu, is not good planning on covid policy, it could be 2 years, 5 years or never. that been said i dont live in there, so not really my business how long china want to keep its zero covid policy.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
heart disease, cancer, stroke and traffic is some the top cost of death, more so than covid in US. US has been fully opened for a while now. alot americans is also anti-vax or didn't get the booster, which account for majority of covid death. so have latest booster lower the chance of death by a significant margin
That's actually not true. Heart disease and cancer are above COVID; nothing else is. You can't stop them with quarantine; they are determined by genetics and lifestyle and are personal choices, once again, without cascading effects on others. You can't tell someone it's illegal to eat burgers because he's too fat and you want him to be healthy; it's his life and he's not hurting anyone else. COVID is not that.
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as for how mild it gonna be, precisely no one know, but its already been 3 years now, so the chance of covid become mild as flu is pretty low. Hoping for covid to be mild as flu, is not good planning on covid policy, it could be 2 years, 5 years or never.
First of all, if you don't know, you err on the side of saving lives; you don't err on the "fuck it, let's just see what happens" approach. Secondly, you have no idea how low or high or how significant 3 years is so don't start throwing random assumptions like, "chances are pretty low." The Spanish flu tapered down after 2 years, and modern medicine and vaccination technology is advancing. No pandemic has ever managed to last through a few years and/or modern medicine's curbs. Lastly, you are literally seeing 2600 people die a week in the US. What part of that makes you think now's the right time to let this thing in??
that been said i dont live in there, so not really my business how long china want to keep its zero covid policy.
Exactly. Don't give unqualified unwanted advice. If you were China's head of CDC and you determined that it was safe to end COVID Zero, the responsibility on your shoulders is enormous. If half a million people die in a few months, every single one of their family members who knew you made that choice would want to beat you to death.
 

s002wjh

Junior Member
That's actually not true. Heart disease and cancer are above COVID; nothing else is. You can't stop them with quarantine; they are determined by genetics and lifestyle and are personal choices, once again, without cascading effects on others. You can't tell someone it's illegal to eat burgers because he's too fat and you want him to be healthy; it's his life and he's not hurting anyone else. COVID is not that.
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First of all, if you don't know, you err on the side of saving lives; you don't err on the "fuck it, let's just see what happens" approach. Secondly, you have no idea how low or high or how significant 3 years is so don't start throwing random assumptions like, "chances are pretty low." The Spanish flu tapered down after 2 years, and modern medicine and vaccination technology is advancing. No pandemic has ever managed to last through a few years and/or modern medicine's curbs. Lastly, you are literally seeing 2600 people die a week in the US. What part of that makes you think now's the right time to let this thing in??

Exactly. Don't give unqualified unwanted advice. If you were China's head of CDC and you determined that it was safe to end COVID Zero, the responsibility on your shoulders is enormous. If half a million people die in a few months, every single one of their family members who knew you made that choice would want to beat you to death.
look you have your opinion, i have mine. again the 2600 is made up majority of anti-vax or no booster, go check how many die from ppl who had 2 booster. also its fact heart disease, traffic etc are the top cause of death.
also this is forum i can share opinion here, i'm not given advice to you or china CDC. it seem you get so agitate every time someone had different opinion than you. are you really that sensitive?
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
look you have your opinion, i have mine.
Except mine is backed by logic and data and yours is backed by random thoughts and desires.
again the 2600 is made up majority of anti-vax or no booster, go check how many die from ppl who had 2 booster.
Why don't you post it here instead of asking me to check? You want to make an argument so you post the evidence.
also its fact heart disease, traffic etc are the top cause of death.
So what? I just explained why they are different from COVID. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
also this is forum i can share opinion here, i'm not given advice to you or china CDC.
This is a forum and so I can tell you why you're wrong.
it seem you get so agitate every time someone had different opinion than you. are you really that sensitive?
Who said I'm agitated? I'm telling you why you're wrong in a public debate forum. If you can't handle it, go write your opinions on your blog. Why are you so sensitive?
 
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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
All comes down to sleep management, stress reduction, proper nutrition, and exercise/movement. It's not rocket science. Tell that to all.

Complete disease prevention? But significant reduction in a number of modern diseases like hypertension, hyperlipidemia, heart disease, insulin resistance/diabetes, cancer, Covid severity and Long covid.
the hell we need doctors for then?
 
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