Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

KYli

Brigadier
It seems like the updated pfizer and moderna vaccine coming out in September is designed for omicron. Anyone knows much about it?
Not sure if I should line up for it or wait a few month.
Would be funny if this deals with Omicron effectively and China rolls it out as a result, and walk away winners hands down.....
It is never put into human clinical yet. So no one knows how well it would perform. Both Pfizer and Moderna took 3 months to twist the vaccines and test them on animals and using antibodies rate responses to determine their effectiveness. Human clinical trials would come later after rollout.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
It is never put into human clinical yet. So no one knows how well it would perform. Both Pfizer and Moderna took 3 months to twist the vaccines and test them on animals and using antibodies rate responses to determine their effectiveness. Human clinical trials would come later after rollout.
I saw one user on Reddit who posted an
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that mentioned a possible reason behind that. In that article, an expert named Leif Erik Sander, who is an infectious disease expert at the Charité University Hospital in Berlin, said:

"Influenza vaccines are updated each spring to try to match the strain most likely to circulate in the fall and winter. The reformulated shots don’t have to undergo new clinical trials unless the manufacturers significantly change the way they make the vaccine. A similar approach for new COVID-19 variants makes sense"

In short, the US FDA is treating the Covid vaccines like influenza ones.
 

KYli

Brigadier
I saw one user on Reddit who posted an
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
that mentioned a possible reason behind that. In that article, an expert named Leif Erik Sander, who is an infectious disease expert at the Charité University Hospital in Berlin, said:

"Influenza vaccines are updated each spring to try to match the strain most likely to circulate in the fall and winter. The reformulated shots don’t have to undergo new clinical trials unless the manufacturers significantly change the way they make the vaccine. A similar approach for new COVID-19 variants makes sense"

In short, the US FDA is treating the Covid vaccines like influenza ones.
We are talking about mRNA vaccines not 100 years old inactivated vaccines that are far safer. Beside, it is bivalent mRNA. For a vaccine that would be injected into hundreds of millions people, I think such approach isn't the best way to instill confident of covid vaccines as we don't even have any idea of their efficacy. Biden administration and CDC are just betting that new vaccines would prevent a surge of cases in the winter so that the hospitals wouldn't be overwhelmed. It is more a political decision than a scientific decision.
 

Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
We will never know the truth. A detectable tumor can take 10 years or more to form from time of inception. By then, it is impossible to trace it back to the vaccine or anything else. And mainstream media, the government, WHO, are not going to do any of these kind of long term studies.

Then again, Israel was the first country to push mRNA vaccines onto its citizens. You would think the Israelis, the Mossad, would know if these vaccines alters human DNA in vivo.

China is also close to approving its own mRNA vaccine. I believe its called ArCoV.
Why would the Israelis know any more than anyone else in the middle east of approximately the same level of medical tech?

The strength of MRNA vaccine is relative ease of development, meaning you can adapt the vaccine quickly to the virus itself adapting. The drawbacks are numerous such as worse efficiency and more side effects.

An inactivated vaccine is harder/more time consuming to make, but is generally going to be "better" and "safer" because it closely mimics the body's own methods for creating immunity.

Nations using MRNA vaccines in general had more mortality, more infections than ones using inactivated (especially during the most lethal delta strain of Covid), but that is irrelevant if China can't create new inactivated vaccines for omicron and other new variants in time. A MRNA vaccine is still better than no vaccine or out dated vaccines.

Generally MRNA vaccines are safe, there is a higher chance of complications compared to inactivated but chances are low and fairly well documented. Just because it is not the safest vaccine doesn't mean it is unsafe, many medications can cause complications.

Also not all MRNA vaccines are created equal, theres nothing to suggest ones developed by China will suffer the same problems as ones developed in USA.
 

MortyandRick

Senior Member
Registered Member
I'm curious how many cases has Chengdu had in the last few days?

Can anyone find a Chinese source for this instead of Bloomberg?
Nevermind I found it on global times.

Yeah this zero covid stuff really needs to be adjusted. Locking down a 21 mil person city is just too much. When will it end? Makes me wonder if the head of the Chinese CDC making this policy is actually an American agent trying to screw china on purpose. Anyone know who makes this policy? It's not all Xi. He must have advisors telling him to do this.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Nevermind I found it on global times.

Yeah this zero covid stuff really needs to be adjusted. Locking down a 21 mil person city is just too much. When will it end? Makes me wonder if the head of the Chinese CDC making this policy is actually an American agent trying to screw china on purpose. Anyone know who makes this policy? It's not all Xi. He must have advisors telling him to do this.
There is no middle ground on this, it is either zero or mass infections, both require sacrifices, if they go for mass infections there will be a A LOT of deaths probably in the hundred of thousands, a million or three disable with long Covid AND the economy will still suffer because sick workers don't work, at that point even testing and publishing numbers will become irrelevant, they will have to censor everything to avoid public panic.
The other way is to do targeted Zero Covid, doing mass testing, you know, the only logical reason for keep testing for COVID. To avoid a mass infection event and to keep the economy in a functioning state.
Whatever they do, the shitty Western mainstream media is going criticize them anyways, so if they are gonna call you "evil" anyway at least let them call you "evil" for doing the right thing and at least we all can agree here that saving lives is the moral thing to do.
If Chinese let this virus spread in their territory the pandemic will be the day that the pandemic will be over, if China can't, nobody can't.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
There is no middle ground on this, it is either zero or mass infections, both require sacrifices, if they go for mass infections there will be a A LOT of deaths probably in the hundred of thousands, a million or three disable with long Covid AND the economy will still suffer because sick workers don't work
US has up to 4 million people disabled due to long COVID. China has almost 4.5 times the population, that means “let-it-rip” will have 18 millions disabled.
 
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