Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[Gatekeeper]

People become irrational when their safety is threatened. I have a neighbor who has stopped sending her son to school for three weeks now over COVID-19 concerns, and there are literally o

Yes, absolutely. It us the fear that drives people to be irrational. Just look at what happened to me yesterday. (I posted that experience a few post back).

The short version was I was locked down when I went to see my Dr on a different issue. But because I had said I have been in contact with someone that's come back from Hong Kong. Panic set in! All hell broke loose, next thing I know, I was in a room by myself talking to a Dr through the internal phone system!

All very irrational!

 

[Rettam Stacf]

Just curious if Josh is one of those Hong Kong rioters paid by NED to burn and burn and destroy and burn.
Did Josh wave bravely USA flag or UK flag?
And how much $$$$ did he get from NED or 5eyes?

Did his father , or grandfather, volunteered to work for the KempeiTai in WW2?

I not accusing. Just only wondering.

Come on guys, cool it a bit. For a while, I thought I was in PDF,

I do not agree with Josh also. But please counter him with facts and not name calling and 4-letter words.

 

[PiSigma]

Guys this is getting scary truly:

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China------1 zillion
US----------12

It is a bio war, and so far the US is winning. Who started it is anyone's guess, but it's here

.....

The real panic will begin when it is realized that China is running out of food. The CCP can't keep that reality suppressed for much longer.

.....

According to Chinese death figures they now have enough extra Big Macs to feed 10 more fat Chinese. China imports 1/3 of its food. Its ports, airports, rail lines and highways to the outside world are closed, and no one wants to do business with it. Hubei Provence is in lock down, and the city of Wuhan depends on it for their food supply. Even if the growers are still growing it, their processing plants are closed, and transportation in and out of many cities has been shut down. People can do nothing; they are confined to their homes. There are already reports of shortages of medical supplies, hospital beds, and food. 60 million have been left to die.

China may have a week before the food situation becomes critical. Their leaders are making speeches on the need to reach this year's GDP targets? The average person is stressing the need to find a bowl of noodles. China is being so poorly governed that their collapse from this disaster is almost inevitable. Once the food runs out, the CCP won't last very long, and China's Great Leap Forward will once again end in tears.
.....

If this were a bioweapon, I can think of all sorts of people with a reason to hate the CCP. Among them, Taiwan and Hong Kong.

But the reality is China is a breeding ground for all sorts of viruses. Swine flu and bird flu are two examples. Unsanitary and crowded conditions among the people and their livestock practices. China is a third world country in that respect. I know our local CCP apologist wants to blame the CIA but the Chinese bring this on themselves.

.......


China has very little spare food capacity; its primary source of protein died of ASF. China lost more than half of its hog population to the disease. China was importing a third of its food supply before the virus struck, and lost much of its own production when the virus hit. China will be reaching starvation level in 14 days. If you are CCP stuck in some major city: start checking out the sewers. They may be your best shot!

That puts the average Chinese diet of 3,000 calories per day to 1,000. Two weeks at 1,000 calories, and you are starting to get very, very sick. A billion people could die from a bio-hazard weapons lab putting the wrong bug, in the wrong jar. This is the Apocalypse, and the human race won't look the same going out, as it looked going in. This is a sad, sad day for humanity.

Is lightmap adiru?

Same nonsense being posted

 

[manqiangrexue]

But by doing things like preventing doctors from alerting the public about an incoming crisis, the CCP is eroding the very stability and support it desires.

Doctors are supposed to inform their higher-ups in order to get a coordinated and government-led effort; they're not supposed freak out and tell people SARS is back on Wechat. Every year, the Chinese government deals with this kind of out-of-line behavior calling out false alarms, but this year, a partial mistake was made. That doesn't mean that in the future, everyone's allowed to whistle-blow and cause panic at everything. Scientific procedures and escalation protocols must be reviewed but the general need to stamp out false alarms will continue to exist.

As these mistakes accumulate, it risk pushing the more educated Chinese populace and professionals toward the arms of liberal democracies.

That's your logic applying Western "wisdom" to Chinese people. Chinese people don't like democracy; if that wasn't totally true before, it's totally true now after the Hong Kong riots showed them what democracy looks like. According to this logic, Chinese people would have gravitated towards democracy a long time ago, but in reality, the support of the CCP has only grown. It shows you the result when you try to apply Western propaganda analysis towards Chinese people and culture.

Also, where did you get the 99 to 99.5% figure? Is that published by the CCP propaganda apparatus?

Stability is not a figure; obviously, it is just meant to say that CCP control is never threatened by any measure.

I acknowledge the fact the CCP still enjoys overwhelming support within China, but keep in mind that you still got extremely powerful groups like Falun Gong, overseas Chinese liberal intellectuals, Chinese Christian organizations, and those who participated in political activism back in 1989 (not to mention the rebellious, but heathen, minorities killing Han Chinese and trying to carve out half of PRC territories for their so-called "national liberations").

All of those groups are extremely weak. Falun Gong is a cult that sets people on fire, forbids medicine, and swindles money, always with a small and insane following. What power can they have? Chinese Christians don't have any interest in attacking the CCP; I've seen Chinese Christians loyal to the CCP but most of them just gather for food, "praying" and talking about daily life. I've been to a couple before for the food; I've never seen any of them engage in anti-CCP discussion much less behavior. They're generally an innocuous group that just wanna hang out. Terrorists are powerful too now? LOL How many Han Chinese died from domestic terrorism in 2019? By your definition, just existing and being anti-China qualifies as being very powerful LOL I can't think of more powerless forces than those you've listed.

Then there is a great Hong Kong revolt of 2019.

The great CIA-led running of the cockroaches that was supposed to spread into mainland China but never had a chance? The one that actually strengthened Chinese people's unity with the CCP after seeing what rabid animals the CIA wants to turn Chinese people into? What about it?

I really don't see another nation state besides Iran and China that face such a powerful organized resistance (in cooperation with their fatherland's strategic competitors) from their overseas kinsman.

How powerful are they? Why is it important that they are overseas kinsmen instead of just any force? The US faces real middle-eastern freedom fighters that would put all these traitorous little nuggets to shame and cost more to combat on a daily basis than a full year for Falun Gong or whatever other cults you wanna add.

Clearly the CCP faces numerous "domestic" rivals, so I don't see how the 99-99.5 figure makes sense.

A rival means something that can actually come near challenging your strength, and there is no such force in the world that challenges the rule of the CCP over China. Just having something exist in antagonism does not constitute a rivalry. If there are 20 cockroaches stealing my food in my kitchen, it doesn't mean I have 20 powerful rivals challenging me LOL

At last, a lot of resistance/non-cooperation from Chinese liberal intellectuals are more subtle, because they don't want to to lose their jobs.

That's interesting that you interpreted more subtle as a result of fear other than the obvious explanation that these complaints are mild. By your logic, I can claim that everyone in the world wants to destroy the US but most are real subtle because they fear its tyranny. It is this bias in your ability to see things that makes you unable to analyze anything meaningfully.

Otherwise, why was there such an outpouring of anger and vague demands for freedom of speech on WeChat and Weibo after Dr. Li Wenliang died?

Vague is correct. A doctor died treating patients and he was not well-treated by his government. That's a real tear-jerker, but people don't really know the details or what should be done about it, so it's vague. The fact of the matter is that a doctor thought he saw SARS and panicked, alerting the wrong people, following the wrong protocol and he was reprimanded; that he continued to do his job and ultimately died is another matter.

Because folks like you are spreading CCP propagandas and arguably complicit in the cover-up of how serious the situation is in Wuhan. What I am trying to do is to have an honest discussion of the real problems. Unlike some of you, I am not here to apply for a job at the PRC Ministry of Propaganda.

Then where are you trying to apply? CIA? LOL Did you think you could throw that funny remark around without getting an equal return?

All you can do is evaluate the CCP through a Western lens while being completely uneducated in virology and you think that is going to uncover some truth? If you were honest, then that speaks terribly about your knowledge and your ability to reason. And now it's clear that you are actually not equipped at all to have any intelligent conversation about any viral infection, but only discuss Chinese politics through a biased and ignorant Western perspective.

 

[Brumby]

A significant change has been made by the Chinese government in the reporting of cases by including clinically diagnosed cases as confirmed cases. In the Hubei province alone, 13,332 cases had been added to the numbers. You will see a significant spike in numbers and consequently headlines once it hits the news wire. This also mean that until to-date, the numbers were under represented in terms of scale of infection.

 

[manqiangrexue]

He warned you from the very beginning

The secret to Chinese sucsess


DO NOT BE FOOLED CHINA! Do not be fooled by Americas lies! They have been working extensively with there own bioweapons program for years! That is why they want to stop other countries from gaining acess to this technology;so they could keep it ALL TO THEM SELVES! Thes "western" commentaitors calling me a crazy America basher are just brainwashed by there racist neonazi American government;there country has absolutely the most biggest aresenal of modern WMD:s belive you me, but there people are brainwashed in to beliveing americans are the "chosen people", so they are the ONLY ONES in the world who should have that power, not forinstance China, wich people have lived in there land THOUSANDS OF YEARS before the first white man set his foot on Americas soil(and brutally murderd the original inhabitants of that great land!)

China MUST get acess to modern WMD:s! This is BIG stuff!!! And not just old nukes! I'm talking about bioweapons, than can choose there target by race(for instance hunt down and kill only caucasian people, or people of non mongoloid decent)If there ever is a war with America China will ultimately lose that war, but the war may never come, if America is afraid of China and wont even try it! This is just ONE out of MANY MANY modern WMD:s and WMD porjects! Just think if China with just a cople of missiles could take out the hole US navy, and not have ANY of it's own people killed in the process! Surdenly China would use that power, do you think not? Modern WMD:s are cheaper than arming over 100-million people in to protecting China, and A LOT more effective! This is just one thing that can be acomplished throw modern R&D! Ofcourse China also needs economic power, but she should not consentrate all her power on economic growth and industrialasasement! China needs economic power, but that alone is not enough! The king of Persia had in 333 a.c 10 TIMES more money to use then Alexander the great, but he still lost! King Dareios the third may have had the money to fight that war, but Alexander had the KNOW HOW! The weapons of the future do not need a massive military industrial complex because they are relatively small. For instance the US only needs to fire about 100 MIRV nuclear missiles to kill half of the people in China(it's flowersin but overcrouted coastal cities) So, the US only needs LESS THEN 1% OF IT'S ENTIRE ARSENAL to totally whipe out China from the map, see what i mean?

So, economic groth simply wont only do it China! Ecomic growth can only work with good R&D For instance China needs a way to start using alternative energy sources. The US is falling behind in R&D and that is why they invadet Iraq, because they did not have the talent and the know how to start investing in alternative energy sources. So, the US is DOOMED because of failing in R&D, seen what i mean?

The west keeps braging to China how good it is, that they are growing and succeeding in economic growth. That is like congratulaiting a 16-year old that he finally learned how to read:roll: While China concentrated on making underpents and stocking for US:s markets, the US concentrates on the futures nano technology! In the future nearly half of Chinas 1,5 billion population may be unemployed do to increasing automation. China also needs knowledge on genetics if she is to have MUCH better rice harvest to feed her over 1-billion population! So, the secret to ALL sucsess is good R&D! Ofcouse the west will be VERY pissed off at China if she starts catching them up in R&D. They will want China to "clarify her intetions in Asia" yeat the US would NEVER tell China there REAL intetions in the middle-east! The west WELL KNOWS, that if China-India will ever catch up the EU-USA in R&D, then they will be FINISHED!!! Superiotity in R&D also means military superiority! For instance if China knew how to make good and effetice Biological and EMP weapons, then she could both poison the US troops and destroy all the circuits in there expensive high tech toys! If China could also build WMD:s that could reach USA:s own soil, the US would probobly be a little more careful on how they treat China. China and Russia should also start there own antimatter project, since the US:s airforce allready has there on the way. China could also build small tactical weapons, like the once the CIA uses, but only smaller. The US might try to destoy Chinas nuclear weapons before theyd ever had the change to leave there silos, so to counter this China might need bio weapons to back up there plan. China could also set up small bombs in the US and possibly blow them up throw satelite or some other device, but China ofcouse should also focus on super sonic missiles and jets and new stealth technology. If China concentrates most of there free resources in R&D and succeeds, then the world will soon have atleast two super powers, and the US will just have to start living with that. If China has a good R&D she can have a modern army like the US, and send it for instance to the midle-east with Russia to fight USA, if they get out of line in there. This way China-India could finally force the western imperialists back to Europe and America and make sure they also STAY there! But China CANNOT do this without good R&D! The Amerians will probobly try to trick you in to an amrsrace and building more and more ships, but i think you shoudnt fall for that! With good R&D China will also come more and more independent(for instance modern bio technology to be used in farming and nano manufacturing for manufacturing purposes)and wont need the west as much as before. The hole western systems has for the past 500-years been based on having better R&D then anyone else. Only when China and India(for instance by turning western countriens against one another?)have good modern R&D they can TRULY break themselves away from the dominance of the west. Only THEN will China-India truly be independent and free!

What the hell is this nonsensical rant written by someone with no knowledge of virology? This trash is for uneducated people seeking a thriller read; that's all.

 

[siegecrossbow]

A significant change has been made by the Chinese government in the reporting of cases by including clinically diagnosed cases as confirmed cases. In the Hubei province alone, 13,332 cases had been added to the numbers. You will see a significant spike in numbers and consequently headlines once it hits the news wire. This also mean that until to-date, the numbers were under represented in terms of scale of infection.

While the number looks bad, this is hopefully better for the sick people in Hubei since the sooner the diagnosis, the sooner they can receive treatment.

 

[OppositeDay]

A significant change has been made by the Chinese government in the reporting of cases by including clinically diagnosed cases as confirmed cases. In the Hubei province alone, 13,332 cases had been added to the numbers. You will see a significant spike in numbers and consequently headlines once it hits the news wire. This also mean that until to-date, the numbers were under represented in terms of scale of infection.

The change is for Hubei only, to bring the Hubei number in line with those of the other provinces. There shouldn't be spikes in numbers from other provinces.

 

[supercat]

Richard McGregor

How the coronavirus crisis has brewed a ‘revolt of the professionals’ in China

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Western MSM is really underestimating the wisdom of Chinese professionals. Why would Chinese professional blame the government for a nature disaster that is being very competently managed by the government?

The only thing China needs to most urgently learn and take away from Covid19 is to develop a state of the art early warning and detection system against all threats of virus, disease etc, one that is systematic and doesnt depend on the whistleblowing of doctors on wechat alone.

All other suggestions like adopting so called liberal western democracy, "freedum of speech", are irrelevant at best and misguided and ill motivated at worst.

Surprisingly, such a system already exists and worked well in this new outbreak:

A medical-surveillance system that China implemented after SARS led officials to discover the new coronavirus within 1 week — here's how it works

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A significant change has been made by the Chinese government in the reporting of cases by including clinically diagnosed cases as confirmed cases. In the Hubei province alone, 13,332 cases had been added to the numbers. You will see a significant spike in numbers and consequently headlines once it hits the news wire. This also mean that until to-date, the numbers were under represented in terms of scale of infection.

Suspected cases will spike even more than confirmed cases. I guess my Feb. update will be late today. On the other hand, the mortality rate in Hubei will come down.

 

[SpicySichuan]

All of those groups are extremely weak. Falun Gong is a cult that sets people on fire, forbids medicine, and swindles money, always with a small and insane following. What power can they have? Chinese Christians don't have any interest in attacking the CCP; I've seen Chinese Christians loyal to the CCP but most of them just gather for food, "praying" and talking about daily life. I've been to a couple before for the food; I've never seen any of them engage in anti-CCP discussion much less behavior. They're generally an innocuous group that just wanna hang out. Terrorists are powerful too now? LOL How many Han Chinese died from domestic terrorism in 2019? By your definition, just existing and being anti-China qualifies as being very powerful LOL I can't think of more powerless forces than those you've listed.

These groups are extremely powerful because they effectively took advantage of the U.S.-China ideological competition and won the material and moral supports of the West. Beijing now has no choice but to live with the fact that these groups are always plotting to overthrow the CCP and spread fake news. The CCP is already losing the propaganda war (narratives) from the Coronavirus outbreak to Hong Kong.