COMAC C929 Widebody Airliner

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gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
Wangxi said:
Russians and Chinese disagree about the CR929 widebody jet program


A joint Chinese and Russian project, the CR929 widebody aircraft is undergoing new difficulties. According to statement by the general director of Irkut, Ravil Khakimov, deliveries of the model, developed in partnership with COMAC, should occur only in 2028 or 2029. Until then, the forecast by CRAIC, the joint venture of the two companies, was for a twin-aisle twin-engine to debut in 2027 after a two-year flight test campaign.

“At the moment, we are at the stage of collecting and analyzing proposals from all suppliers to determine the final configuration of the aircraft. It was planned to complete this work in 2020 and, in 2021, move on to the contracting phase with all co-contractors. and suppliers,” Khakimov explained to the Russian government’s economic policy committee on Wednesday. “But, unfortunately, there are difficulties in working together with Chinese partners, so this phase could be changed to 2021”, added the general director of Irkut.


Different focuses

The joint venture between COMAC and Irkut, part of the UAC group, was launched in May 2017 with optimistic perspectives as it brought together two old partners from the times of communism in a joint work that seemed perfect. The Chinese wanted the Russians’ experience with complex aircraft designs while they saw the Chinese government’s injection of resources as the solution to make the program viable.

However, society is beginning to show signs of fraying. According to the Russian press, COMAC intends to have the exclusive sale of CR929 on the Chinese domestic market, leaving Irkut to exploit customers from other countries. As is known, competing with giants like Airbus and Boeing is an almost impossible task.

Irkut’s estimate indicates that the Russian market should absorb 50 aircraft like the CR929 in the next 20 years while in China there is a much greater potential, from 450 to 500 units.



Market with few competitors

Developing a widebody aircraft is one of the biggest challenges in the aerospace industry. Few companies have succeeded in this market and even famous names like Lockheed have failed – with the L-1011 Tristar tri-jet.

Russia, through Ilyushin, developed the four-engine aircraft Il-86 and later the most efficient
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, but both planes had modest production – less than 150 units were produced. China, meanwhile, has invested heavily in recent years to make its first commercial aircraft, the
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and C919, both single-aisle viable.

For that reason, the CR929 seemed to be the ideal solution. With three variants planned, the twin engine aircraft will be able to carry 250 to 320 passengers and compete with the Boeing 777 and Airbus A350. Initial studies predict a range of 10,000 km to 14,000 km, depending on the version. Half of the fuselage structure will use composite materials, part of the scope of COMAC.


The choice of the new jet’s turbofan engine has been complicated. UAC has been talking to Rolls-Royce and GE as alternatives to an export variant, but at the same time they are studying a native solution or in partnership with the Chinese.

The aviation crisis triggered by the coronavirus pandemic, however, can make the future of the CR929 quite difficult. If more robust programs like the
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and A350 suffer from cut orders, what can be expected from an unprecedented Sino-Russian widebody.

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China fighting with another country again. Is that a surprise? :D
 
asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
CR929 is off course a wide body aircraft

China needs to master this part of the technology

I can understand why Russia wants part of the pie but China is not happy to give up sales to Russia and also I understand why
 
TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
This kind of feud is common with joints between to major manufacturers. Both want major sales as if they were restricted to the smaller sales only they loose and loose hard.
limited manufacturing of a product like CR929 would cost a pretty penny to get a break even you need a substantial number. Irkut knows this. They aren’t a charity they want hard currency. Comac knows this well to. Both want to be able to sell into the market they think will make the most profits. Which might just end the joint. Or make one the junior partner.
 
Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
manqiangrexue said:
Another stupid pointless post cus China's doing so well that its trolls need to stretch so far as calling a project negotiation phase a "fight." Is that a surprise? :p
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To be fair, he maybe Chinese with limited English comprehension. As you know Chinese use the phrase "fight" alot to mean quarrels etc. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

It is obvious the Russians would like a piece of the Chinese pie. As the China market is going to be dwarf anything Russia is going to get.

In reality, we all know who's the junior partner is going to be. It's not nice being the junior partner especially when you're used to be the senior partner in the past. But reality has changed. And it is better for Russia to benefit from a junior partner role than not at all.

In the past, the failures of Russian airliners is mainly down to selling enough units to make economy of scale works for them. Here, there's an opportunity for them to gain enough critical mass because of the China market to help them keep their aircraft building skills rolling. There really isn't any other choice for them.
 
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Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Wangxi said:
All Chinese websites seem to say the problem is that Russians don't want to share technology, especially on engines
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I supposed it is understandable, as that is the only trump card they holds. But they can't have it both ways. They can't expect China to share tech and not reciprocate.

It is a difficult choice for them, as once they loose the edge on the engine, what is there to stop China going it alone in future project?
But that's going to happen sooner or later. They might as well bite the bullet now.

I suspect if the Russian had a choice, they would choose India as the partner. Unfortunately for them India is not at that stage of economic development for another 20 years.
 
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