COMAC C929 Widebody Airliner

asif iqbal said:

I thought the C929 had died due to the Ukraine war

but seems like if anything Chinese co-operation with Russia in the civil aviation sector has increased since the war since the Western company's pilled out

I guess its their loss

one mans loss is another mans gain

Click to expand...

What are you talking about?

CR929 was dead, but C929 has been reborn. In fact, its development has accelerated.

Have you been following this thread, at least?

asif iqbal said:

I thought the C929 had died due to the Ukraine war

but seems like if anything Chinese co-operation with Russia in the civil aviation sector has increased since the war since the Western company's pilled out

I guess its their loss

one mans loss is another mans gain

Click to expand...

If anything, the sanctions on Russia highlighted the importance for China to have access to a long-haul airliner not subject to potential sanctions.

So I don't think the C929 ever died, but they did have to figure out a way forward, and developing a new airliner is definitely a long-term project.

AndrewS said:

If anything, the sanctions on Russia highlighted the importance for China to have access to a long-haul airliner not subject to potential sanctions.

So I don't think the C929 ever died, but they did have to figure out a way forward, and developing a new airliner is definitely a long-term project.

Click to expand...

I understand that back in the early 2010s there were plenty on the Comac side who wanted to go it alone back then. So, things have come full circle with Russia departing the programme. If anything, Russia's absence may somewhat simplify what will be a very complex, difficult project.

KFX said:

I understand that back in the early 2010s there were plenty on the Comac side who wanted to go it alone back then. So, things have come full circle with Russia departing the programme. If anything, Russia's absence may somewhat simplify what will be a very complex, difficult project.

Click to expand...

Russia likely still remains as a subcontractor supplying parts or components.
But yes, I agree it will simplify decision-making substantially.

asif iqbal said:

I thought the C929 had died due to the Ukraine war

but seems like if anything Chinese co-operation with Russia in the civil aviation sector has increased since the war since the Western company's pilled out

I guess its their loss

one mans loss is another mans gain

Click to expand...

Russia has been kicked out of the project due to the Ukraine war and sanctions on them. I actually think its a good thing for China. Russia would have slowed down and made the project even more complex to be honest. Now I think the project will be more simpler and decision making faster with less bickering. So a net positive for China. Russia can just be component supplier to the project like they should have been in the first place. Involving them just wasted COMACs time I think if China had gone it alone from the beginning this project would have been at a more advanced stage than it is today.

Michael90 said:

Russia has been kicked out of the project due to the Ukraine war and sanctions on them. I actually think its a good thing for China. Russia would have slowed down and made the project even more complex to be honest. Now I think the project will be more simpler and decision making faster with less bickering. So a net positive for China. Russia can just be component supplier to the project like they should have been in the first place. Involving them just wasted COMACs time I think if China had gone it alone from the beginning this project would have been at a more advanced stage than it is today.

Click to expand...

Russia withdrew; they were not kicked out. It's a classic example that 2 tigers cannot co-rule a single mountain. China's expertise has absolutely blossomed; prior to this, it would have made sense for China to be the major contributor to the funding and Russia to be the main technological contributor and that would have been a great partnership but currently, with China's rise, it makes much more sense to go it alone and keep Russia in as a potential parts supplier. Russians are a very proud people and difficult to deal with when in equal cooperation; they are a my-way-or-the-highway people and their arrogance is hallmark.

Michael90 said:

Russia has been kicked out of the project due to the Ukraine war and sanctions on them. I actually think its a good thing for China. Russia would have slowed down and made the project even more complex to be honest. Now I think the project will be more simpler and decision making faster with less bickering. So a net positive for China. Russia can just be component supplier to the project like they should have been in the first place. Involving them just wasted COMACs time I think if China had gone it alone from the beginning this project would have been at a more advanced stage than it is today.

Click to expand...

Aside from the war, if I remember correctly, there was a leaked story in which the Russians literally ignored and dumped the suggested plans by the Chinese in regards to the design of the CR929 fuselage (I think). Based on that, if true, then the Russians are also hard to work with.

Reminds me of when Russia offered China to join PAKFA as a joint partner, which China, having J-20 under development, politely declined, so Russia offered India to join PAKFA as a joint partner next. India, having lackluster Tejas and AMCA, jumped into that opportunity. Now we know how that went. China has always been capable of independent development, CR929 joint development was as much political as it was synergy of tech, China could have done it independent, it just chose to partner for efficiency and friendship, not because it's not capable.

Phead128 said:

Reminds me of when Russia offered China to join PAKFA as a joint partner, which China, having J-20 under development, politely declined, so Russia offered India to join PAKFA as a joint partner next. India, having lackluster Tejas and AMCA, jumped into that opportunity. Now we know how that went. China has always been capable of independent development, CR929 joint development was as much political as it was synergy of tech, China could have done it independent, it just chose to partner for efficiency, not because it's not capable.

Click to expand...

Russia's inclusion in CR929 was basically Political strategy of COMAC and technological too.. both parties wanted to challenge Boeing/Airbus in wide body aircraft segment. Russia have strong political influence in Africa/Central Asia.

The delay occurred in this project mainly because of IP rights disputes.. but later on it has been sorted out but as we know, War interrupted again .. so COMAC decided to go alone due to various reasons..

Russia also offered Joint Engine venture for CR929. but COMAC declined and eventually decided to go alone again. so we have CJ-2000.

written agreement between both parties is still valid. but Russia's position have switched. Russia is providing composite wing to C929.. COMAC still consider Russia a valuable partner in this project ..

as per CEO's own statement, the experience we gained from C919 project is extremely valuable. based on this we can design and produce any type of civil aircraft.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PROGRESS in this project-

C929 wide body aircraft has entered in detailed design stage and Joint team from six different departments have assembled to review components/parts include propulsion..

C929 fuselage , mid fuselage , wing , tail , nose and landing gear contracts have awarded.. so far all are domestic suppliers. obvious Wing is from Russia..

The former Russian CR929 aircraft design team was disbanded. They are now working for Gazprom on a new regional airliner aircraft design.

Work on the composite wing for C929 and the PD-35 engine is still ongoing. Just this year they finished ground tests of the hot section of the PD-35 at temperature and pressure.