China is already among the top five in the world in its defence aviation industry. Only the civilian aviation needs maturing.
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COMAC C929 Widebody Airliner
- Thread starter Iron Man
- Start date
I'd say China is 2nd only to the US in terms of military aviation.
Do you see any other Air Forces building the entire range of military airplanes?
Eg. 2 stealth fighter programmes, a stealth bomber, unmanned combat aircraft, AWACs, transport aircraft, tankers etc etc
drunkmunky
Junior Member
I wonder if this is how Boeing felt in the 60's and how Airbus felt in the 70's developing their first planes. Yes, technology is vastly different, but the I'm more-so thinking about the effort and learning that needs to take place, almost like maturing teens.
This is an essential airplane both for the civilian and, I think, also for the military sector.
The A330 is used as a tanker aircraft in several nations. This aircraft, the CR929, will be in the same performance bracket. So I expect it to eventually also be used in that role too. Developing this airframe and these engines will take tremendous effort from both China and Russia.
Kind of rehashing the older argument here, but China is ahead of Russia in some parts of the aviation sector and behind in others. Even in civilian aviation if you compare the MC-21 with the C919 the MC-21 uses more composites and has a more advanced wing design. The MC-21 also has a native engine, PD-14, already in flight testing while the C919's engine is still in the development stage.
China also used to be way behind in helicopters compared with Russia, but I think this is not the case anymore thanks to the WZ-10 and Z-20 helicopters. With regards to fighter design, personally, I think the Su-57s airframe is more advanced than the J-20s, but the Chinese have some clever solutions like with the side weapons bays or their use of simpler to build and more RCS reducing divertirless inlets. I think the J-20 is a smart design with lower risk with less all moving surfaces and probably easier to manufacture as well. I think a lot of people underestimate the Su-57 airframe. The Chinese have put the J-20 in production however while the Russians have not put theirs so you can consider that as them being ahead. I still think it will take the Chinese 5 years to a decade to surpass any gaps they have in technology with regards to Russia. The Chinese are already much more advanced in things like avionics or radar I think.
The A330 is used as a tanker aircraft in several nations. This aircraft, the CR929, will be in the same performance bracket. So I expect it to eventually also be used in that role too. Developing this airframe and these engines will take tremendous effort from both China and Russia.
Kind of rehashing the older argument here, but China is ahead of Russia in some parts of the aviation sector and behind in others. Even in civilian aviation if you compare the MC-21 with the C919 the MC-21 uses more composites and has a more advanced wing design. The MC-21 also has a native engine, PD-14, already in flight testing while the C919's engine is still in the development stage.
China also used to be way behind in helicopters compared with Russia, but I think this is not the case anymore thanks to the WZ-10 and Z-20 helicopters. With regards to fighter design, personally, I think the Su-57s airframe is more advanced than the J-20s, but the Chinese have some clever solutions like with the side weapons bays or their use of simpler to build and more RCS reducing divertirless inlets. I think the J-20 is a smart design with lower risk with less all moving surfaces and probably easier to manufacture as well. I think a lot of people underestimate the Su-57 airframe. The Chinese have put the J-20 in production however while the Russians have not put theirs so you can consider that as them being ahead. I still think it will take the Chinese 5 years to a decade to surpass any gaps they have in technology with regards to Russia. The Chinese are already much more advanced in things like avionics or radar I think.
Difficult to say for sure when it comes to avionics and electronics between Russia and China. I'd wager that when it comes to radar, Chinese radar technology is ahead in aviation and naval radars. Of course China's fundamentals were build off Russian/Soviet technologies but nowadays encompass a greater variety and depth. China has fielded various airborne and naval AESA and dual bands for close to a decade if not longer now. Over the horizon? Maybe Russia has a few more advantages there.
Not sure why you consider the MC-21's wings to be superior. The composites? C919 is similar. On manufacturing of frames, I think China is well ahead and approaching the US. Look at the J-20 compared to the Su-57's body. Even the J-10C has smoother surfaces, fewer gaps, and seemingly more consistency. Of course this is a relatively superficial way to judge but Russia always approached making planes like building tanks as opposed to the American way, building fine mechanical watches. J-10C, J-20, WZ-8, GJ-11 (actually any modern drone) seems to have better assembly quality. Russian engineering has always had my absolute respect and interest. I think they can't do that much better given the amount of resources they have to play with. So the competition isn't exactly fair between Russia and China. Ever since US economic warfare on Russia since the day the USSR broke apart, it's been progressing rather slowly in all honesty. Perhaps they remain to hold an edge over China in certain engine and materials technologies but no longer an obvious edge in electronics, avionics, sensors, manufacturing+assembly, or aerodynamics. Aerodynamics nowadays is the easy part so best supercomputers, wind tunnels, and more engineers (competent ones) hold advantage.
foxmulder_ms
Junior Member
To break Airbus/Boeing dupoly, creating a coalition can be an attractive idea to to go global. Why not try to include countries like Brazil and Korea to this China-Russia cooperation. A willing Embreer/Brazil will be a good source of engineering and know/how to accelerate things. E series can turn into CB909 to join C919 and CR-929 
To break Airbus/Boeing dupoly, creating a coalition can be an attractive idea to to go global. Why not try to include countries like Brazil and Korea to this China-Russia cooperation. A willing Embreer/Brazil will be a good source of engineering and know/how to accelerate things. E series can turn into CB909 to join C919 and CR-929
Do not see any benefit from either technology or business sense.
[1] China already has the Comac ARJ21, a direct competitor of the Embraer E-Series.
[2] All the E-Series engine, avionics and many air frame components are sourced from outside of Brazil. Embraer brings very little to the party.
Anyway, we are gong way off topic. Mod, feel free to move us to the China Civil Aviation thread if there is any need to continue this discussion.