COMAC C919

T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
by78 said:
One more high-resolution images of C919 training simulator.

52487431256_33623d153d_3k.jpg
Click to expand...
I found this yesterday
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1669749864144.png

The article talks about the flight control system and simulator of C919 developed by COMAC's Shanghai facility. We know that Honeywell is the western partner in this area. The article made following claims.
  1. 14 years of work
  2. fully indigenous development
  3. installed on the test flight planes
Another news
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(which talks about component of CJ-1000A) lists the following suppliers of C-919
1669750124734.png
Blue is Honeywell, the greens are three Chinese entities in the area. One is AVIC computer (IC and SW), another is its commercial company, the third is XAC flight control institute.

Now I begin to wonder the role of Honeywell and by extension all other western partners. They may not be selling products to China but often act as consultants and selling IPs. The HW and SW on C-919 are mostly locally produced. In flight control field, Honeywell may have sold their SW to Chinese who then rewrite it to fit C-919, because there is no way anybody can sell a flight control platform as blackbox, anybody designing it has to read the source code. As the HW platform, AVIC computer is the one doing that work in place of Honeywell.

In the not long past in this forum we are treating the western partners and Chinese suppliers as parallel alternatives, but I now think it is more likely (but not always) an interlaced collaboration between them, there is no pure foreign.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
weig2000 said:
Certification for international flight and certification for export to certain markets are two different things. To sell to the US-based airlines, you need FAA certification; to sell EU airlines you need EASA certification. To fly into these countries, the aircraft should only need be certified by your country's aviation authority complying with ICAO guidelines. I post related information some time ago when C919 got its Type Certificate (TC).

So yes, C919 can fly internationally and land in other countries.
Click to expand...
In Boeing 737MAX's case, it was recertified by FAA, however CAAC did not recertify it until almost a year later. During this time no Boeing 737MAX of Chinese airlines could fly.

My question is, did any airlines from neighbouring countries fly their 737MAX into China, land in China's airport or just passed over Chinese airspace?
 
W

weig2000

Captain
taxiya said:
I found this yesterday
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

View attachment 102690

The article talks about the flight control system and simulator of C919 developed by COMAC's Shanghai facility. We know that Honeywell is the western partner in this area. The article made following claims.
  1. 14 years of work
  2. fully indigenous development
  3. installed on the test flight planes
Another news
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(which talks about component of CJ-1000A) lists the following suppliers of C-919
View attachment 102691
Blue is Honeywell, the greens are three Chinese entities in the area. One is AVIC computer (IC and SW), another is its commercial company, the third is XAC flight control institute.

Now I begin to wonder the role of Honeywell and by extension all other western partners. They may not be selling products to China but often act as consultants and selling IPs. The HW and SW on C-919 are mostly locally produced. In flight control field, Honeywell may have sold their SW to Chinese who then rewrite it to fit C-919, because there is no way anybody can sell a flight control platform as blackbox, anybody designing it has to read the source code. As the HW platform, AVIC computer is the one doing that work in place of Honeywell.

In the not long past in this forum we are treating the western partners and Chinese suppliers as parallel alternatives, but I now think it is more likely (but not always) an interlaced collaboration between them, there is no pure foreign.
Click to expand...

Well, China required all international suppliers to set up JV with respective local Chinese partners. Most did, except CFM. So the JVs help with the integration and possibly localization of foreign HW/SW.

As far as the flight control system development, there has been a rather long report on the team and the team leader that have developed and grown the team over the last 14 years.

Suffice to say that, regardless what kind of involvement of the foreign suppliers, China from right the beginning has had the plan to develop alternatives for all subsystems/components. Their progress may be uneven, but that's the goal and they're all ongoing. There have been reports that when C919 started, they thought the domestic contents would constitute about 10% of the aircraft, but over the years the domestic contents have grown to 60% by now - however they measure it. That number will continue to grow, no doubt.
 
W

weig2000

Captain
taxiya said:
In Boeing 737MAX's case, it was recertified by FAA, however CAAC did not recertify it until almost a year later. During this time no Boeing 737MAX of Chinese airlines could fly.

My question is, did any airlines from neighbouring countries fly their 737MAX into China, land in China's airport or just passed over Chinese airspace?
Click to expand...

I believe B737MAX is a different matter. It's an aircraft with severe accident records and FAA had to go back to investigate and recertify essentially. Chinese airlines are the biggest customers of B737MAX. In order for B373MAX to fly again in China, CAAC will need to recertify it or accept the re-certification from FAA. CAAC was the first national aviation authority in the world to order the suspension of B7373MAX. They would have to give the greenlight again.

Short answer, B737MAX does not belong to the scenario that I described.
 
K

kentchang

Junior Member
Registered Member
taxiya said:
In Boeing 737MAX's case, it was recertified by FAA, however CAAC did not recertify it until almost a year later. During this time no Boeing 737MAX of Chinese airlines could fly.

My question is, did any airlines from neighbouring countries fly their 737MAX into China, land in China's airport or just passed over Chinese airspace?
Click to expand...

I believe there was exactly ONE 737MAX landing in China so far. Second planned was cancelled last minute.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
L

latenlazy

Brigadier
taxiya said:
I found this yesterday
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

View attachment 102690

The article talks about the flight control system and simulator of C919 developed by COMAC's Shanghai facility. We know that Honeywell is the western partner in this area. The article made following claims.
  1. 14 years of work
  2. fully indigenous development
  3. installed on the test flight planes
Another news
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(which talks about component of CJ-1000A) lists the following suppliers of C-919
View attachment 102691
Blue is Honeywell, the greens are three Chinese entities in the area. One is AVIC computer (IC and SW), another is its commercial company, the third is XAC flight control institute.

Now I begin to wonder the role of Honeywell and by extension all other western partners. They may not be selling products to China but often act as consultants and selling IPs. The HW and SW on C-919 are mostly locally produced. In flight control field, Honeywell may have sold their SW to Chinese who then rewrite it to fit C-919, because there is no way anybody can sell a flight control platform as blackbox, anybody designing it has to read the source code. As the HW platform, AVIC computer is the one doing that work in place of Honeywell.

In the not long past in this forum we are treating the western partners and Chinese suppliers as parallel alternatives, but I now think it is more likely (but not always) an interlaced collaboration between them, there is no pure foreign.
Click to expand...
Well…this is basically what I’ve been saying about how joint ventures are not sanction vulnerabilities. Foreign presence or ownership of a supply source is irrelevant if all the actual production activity is happening in China and being done by Chinese personnel. Ultimately foreign ownership is just a legal title. Actual ownership is with the people who have the know how. So long as you have the capacity to resist coercion you only need to respect the legal titles to the extent that the legal regime upholding the titles respect you.
 
by78

by78

General

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(ECNS) -- A total of 15 pilots, including COMAC flight instructors, obtained the C919 Type Rating after the China-made airplane completed related training specification test of the Flight Standardization Committee, according to the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC).

It indicates that the C919 will soon be delivered and enter operation.

CAAC East China Regional Administration issued the C919 Production Certificate to COMAC in Shanghai on Tuesday, indicating that China is capable of producing large passenger aircraft in batches.

The first C919 airplane is scheduled to be delivered to China Eastern Airlines in December.

52534620290_f8e40e6f2b_k.jpg
 
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