Civilian Aviation Technology

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
What's the amount of red ink do you expect ? and have some kind of basis to justify your estimate not just pick some astronomical unsustainable number out of the thin air just to fit your 'come what may' scenario.

It's pointless to estimate what sort of losses any fledging aircraft manufacturer may incur. Im merely suggesting that the authorities regarding it as a strategic industry, would go out of its way to insure its survival, perhaps more so than what Western companies can expect from their respective govts.
 

tphuang

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news on SF-A, MTU working with AVIC1's engine division in developing SF-A. This really is a coup for AVIC1, because it has a lot to learn from MTU in project management, production quality, reliability, service support and other areas of a successful modern commercial aviation engine.
Jan. 4 (Bloomberg) -- MTU Aero Engines Holding AG said it
will help Aviation Industry Corp. of China develop engines for
the Asian country’s planned C919 airliner as the government
strives to create an independent aerospace industry.
MTU’s memorandum of understanding with Shanghai-based
AVIC’s commercial-aircraft engine division will enable the
companies to explore options on setting up a Chinese engine
maker and eventually create standalone technology, Odilo
Muehling, a spokesman at the Munich-based manufacturer, said
today by phone.
The agreement allows MTU to “become a force to be reckoned
with” in manufacturing in China, where the company already
offers maintenance, Muehling said. The engines would be
introduced “by the end of the decade,” he said, adding that
it’s too early to forecast any investment budget or potential
market size.
AVIC’s Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China affiliate is
MTU, AVIC to Develop Engines for China’s C919 Plane (Update1)
developing the single-aisle C919 as a competitor to Boeing Co.’s
737 model, the world’s biggest-selling airliner, and Airbus
SAS’s A320. MTU is a partner with General Electric Co. in making
engines for Boeing’s new twin-aisle 787 Dreamliner, and is in a
separate venture with Rolls-Royce Group Plc and United
Technologies Corp.’s Pratt & Whitney unit that makes engines for
A320s, including planes bought by China’s Sichuan Airlines.
A General Electric-Safran SA venture won a $10 billion
contract to supply engines for the first C919s last month.
China’s government intends to eventually use locally developed
engines on the 168-seat C919, which is scheduled to enter
service by 2016.

The Chinese news on this
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says that both the Leap-X1C and SF-A project's relevant facilities will be located in an area set aside in the Pudong harbour area of Shanghai. This was first signed in November of 2008. This base has 4 purpose:
1) For the final assembly and test bed of Leap-X1C and domestic engine (aka SF-A)
2) MRO (maintenance, repairs and overhaul) facility
3) Undertake international subcontract work
4) Form domestic engine Industry group
人民网上海1月4日电 (记者沈文敏)我国大型客机发动机项目责任主体和总承制单位中航商用飞机发动机有限责任公司今天在沪宣布,根据2008年11月上海市政府与中国航空工业集团公司达成的战略合作框架协议,国产大飞机发动机总装试车用地落户在上海浦东临港地区,届时临港基地的功能将包含LEAP-X1C国际合作装配项目;同时,公司日前与德国 MTU航空发动机公司签订了谅解备忘录,双方就在研制我国自主知识产权民机发动机方面开展合作达成了初步意向。

  临港基地功能将包含LEAP-X1C项目

  2009年12月21日,中航工业商发与CFM国际公司在中法两国总理见证下签订谅解备忘录,计划在国内共同装配生产LEAP-X1C飞机发动机。

  根据2008年11月上海市政府与中航工业达成的战略合作框架协议,去年1月在上海成立的中航工业商发,其总装试车用地将落户在上海浦东临港地区。框架协议提出:上海将在临港地区提供用地作为商用发动机总装试车用地,并在上海建立国家级民用航空产业配套基地,给予基地内企业提供优惠的政策支持;中航工业以航空发动机装试基地建设为产业先导,建立商发总装、发动机大修、国际合作转包及其产业集群配套等体系,逐步拉动航电、机电、环控及材料等民机配套产业发展并向基地集聚。

  按照框架协议的定位,中航工业商发临港基地建成后,将具备四大功能:一是负责民用航空发动机的总装和试车,包括自主研制项目和国际合作项目;二是大修厂;三是承接国际转包生产业务;四是形成国产民机发动机的产业集群。这意味着,临港基地功能将包含LEAP-X1C国际合作装配项目。

  临港基地的建设时间表尚未公布。中航工业商发方面表示,将视产品研发的情况,适时启动临港基地的建设工作。

  与德国MTU签订谅解备忘录初定合作意向

  在积极参与国际项目合作装配的同时,中航工业商发也在加紧推进自主知识产权国产民机发动机项目的研制工作。日前,中航工业商发与德国MTU航空发动机公司签订了合作研发国产发动机项目的谅解备忘录。

  过去约半年时间里,中航工业商发与MTU公司开展了互访和考察,稳步推进合作事宜。MTU公司表达了积极的合作愿望,并在技术、项目合作方面提出了具体建议。目前,双方正按照谅解备忘录的内容开展合作洽谈。

  中航工业商发总经理张建说,这一合作是立足于自主创新、同时广泛利用全球资源的合作共赢理念,不管是开展技术合作还是单独研制,都是在确保我国企业独立自主打造具有中国自主知识产权飞机发动机的前提下开展的。

  目前,双方正就项目分包、技术合作或合资等各种可能的合作形式中选择何条路径,开展进一步的探讨和洽谈。

  中航商发践行“两融”战略取得成效

  成立近一年的中航工业商发,正在自主研发、国际合作两个方面推进民机发动机项目。在这一过程中,中航工业商发始终积极践行中航工业“融入世界航空产业链,融入区域发展经济圈”的“两融”集团公司战略,并取得了较好的成效。

  “融入世界航空产业链”的战略,并不是指简单地把航空产品卖到国际市场,而是要在产业发展的层面与国际一流的航空企业形成你中有我、我中有你这样一种合作共赢的发展格局。在这一战略的指引下,中航工业商发正广泛利用全球资源,吸引优秀的供应商参与到国产民机发动机项目,以实现民机发动机国产化、快速成长并参与国际竞争的跨越式发展。目前,与CFM和MTU分别开展的国际合作正在稳步推进。

  在践行“融入区域发展经济圈”方面,中航工业商发正通过闵行基地、临港基地等功能区定位,带动航空产业发展,积极融入上海经济社会发展大局,努力实现共赢。

  中航工业商发方面提出,让中国的大飞机翱翔连天,不仅是民族梦,也是一个上海梦,因为中国的大飞机发展自始至终就没有离开过上海,为此,将加快推进民机发动机产业化,积极融入华东地区,融入长三角地区。
 

tphuang

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more news, airbus China production is ramping up as expected. Although, it's still not at the planned total of 48 yet.
The Airbus final assembly line project in Tianjin will assemble and
deliver 26 A320 aircraft in 2010, more than double the number in 2009.

The production capacity of the Airbus final assembly line project in
Tianjin is increasing continuously. Airbus China recently said that the
Airbus final assembly line project in Tianjin successfully finished the
task of assembling and delivering 11 Airbus A320 aircraft in 2009 and
it plans to assemble and deliver 26 A320 aircraft in 2010.

By the end of 2011, the Airbus final assembly line project in Tianjin will
reach its maximum production capacity, enabling it to assemble 4 aircraft
per month and starting from 2012, the Airbus final assembly line project
in Tianjin will assemble 48 aircraft each year.
 

tphuang

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Interesting article. China is selling 6 Ma-60s to Sri Lanka and 3 to Myanmar. I think this really illustrates why China will have no problem exporting ARJ-21 and C-919 to other countries. Even if it does not have advantage over existing airliners, China can simply export them to poorer nations it has good relationships with and also embargoed nations. Ma-60 is definitely not modern by any stretch of imagination, but it has achieved many export orders.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Here's an interesting "concept" model being displayed at the China Aviation Pavilion for the Shanghai Expo coming up.

8b2d8dc70f8a49ee8085cf9.jpg
 

siegecrossbow

General
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Here's an interesting "concept" model being displayed at the China Aviation Pavilion for the Shanghai Expo coming up.

[qimg]http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8324/8b2d8dc70f8a49ee8085cf9.jpg[/qimg]

Very interesting design indeed. Looks like a cross between a flanker and Enterprise E (I digress)! Do you have more information on this prototype (like name, developer, etc.)
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
I think you are referring to the boeing X-48, which is closer to a true flying wing than this design. Also the engines are located on the back of the plane, not the belly.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Very interesting design indeed. Looks like a cross between a flanker and Enterprise E (I digress)! Do you have more information on this prototype (like name, developer, etc.)

No other info. I just saw it amongst other pics of models of Chinese aircraft in existence now. One pic had the AVIC symbol but had no indication that this was their model. It'll be interesting to see what's displayed when the Expo opens.

The engines are the ugly part... sort of off from the rest. I wonder what the landing gear is like. It could be just a space plane someone dreamed up.
 
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