Civilian Aviation Technology

S

Schumacher

Senior Member
So many 'thought provoking' and 'insightful' analysis from our aviation 'experts' here. :)
I pick a few here.

"... In this field Comac is an unkown. They have no record of delivering a safe, reliable product. They have no established history under their belt - they need to build that..."

This one is very 'profound'. Before this, I guess everyone was expecting a newcomer to actually have a 'record'. Looks like we need to fix the definition of newcomer. Comac chiefs definitely need to read this, I think they never have any plan to deliver a safe and reliable product.

"...If the Chinese companies don't get their packages right (the perfect aircraft, technology, efficiency, reliability, and support), they will never make a dent in the global aviation industry..."

This is even better. Comac should also heed this call instead of continuing planning to make a dent in the industry by getting their package wrong instead of right and remember to make it 'perfect', as we all know, any thing less than 'perfect', like encountering mishap, will NEVER make it.:)
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
bladerunner said:
But what if one earlier poster suggested was to come to fruition. Wouldnt playing hardball with certification so that Chinese aircraft could operate in the West Throw a spanner in the works?
Click to expand...

That will definitely be a game that the west will play, but that has nothing to do with the quality and reliability of Chinese aircraft.
 
lcloo

lcloo

Captain
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新闻背景：LEAP-X1C型飞机发动机

人民网军事在线北京12月21日电　 （记者 杨铁虎）中航工业商用飞机发动机有限责任公司与CFM国际有限公司21日在北京签订谅解备忘录，计划在国内合资建立用于LEAP-X1C型飞机发动机总装和试车的生产线。

　　LEAP-X系列飞机发动机是CFM国际有限公司推出的致力于替换目前单通道大型客机动力装置的新型航空发动机系列。2008年7月13日，CFM国际有限公司在第46届法恩巴勒航展开幕前一天，发布启动了新一代动力装置LEAP-X发动机，作为B737/A320系列飞机的配置。2008年11月4日，LEAP-X发动机在第7届中国国际航空航天博览会上首次公开亮相。

　　此次计划在国内建立装配线的LEAP-X1C，是用于装配在国产大型客机C919的LEAP-X系列发动机中的一款。

　　与CFM目前生产的主流发动机CFM56系列相比，LEAP-X这一先进的下一代飞机发动机燃油消耗可减少16%，二氧化碳排放量可减少16%，氮氧化物排放量不足其60%，且更为安静。CFM56目前安装在空客A320系列飞机和波音737NG（新一代737）系列飞机。

　　LEAP-X发动机采用SNECMA公司研制的碳纤维复合材料风扇叶片以及通用电气公司研制的陶瓷基复合材料涡轮部件。Leap-X发动机将拥有18片风扇叶片，其数量比CFM56-5C减少一半，是CFM56-7B的四分之三。

　　根据研制计划，LEAP-X发动机将于2012年总装首台验证机，2016年取得适航证。目前，LEAP-X发动机的核心及和风扇已经完成气动机性能试验，开始进行整机测试。★

China today signed a MOU with CFM for an engine assembly line in China. The engine is LEAP-X1C, belong to family of a new generation engine for 737/A320. This engine will be used to power C919.

Compare with CFM56, it consume 16% less fuel, 16% less carbon dioxide emission, and is much more quite. According to plan this engine will get certification in 2016.
 
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bladerunner

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
lcloo; China today signed a MOU with CFM for an engine assembly line in China. The engine is LEAP-X1C said:
Im too lazy to do the research, plus I have as much engineering aptitude as a blowfly when it comes down to the technical points of jet engines,. So will they be as good as the P&W Geared Turbo Fans, that I read about last summer, or the latest variants of the RR Trent RB211?
Click to expand...
 
tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
two stories
exporting 8 business jet to Laos. Looks like this is the first export sale for it.
XI'AN, Dec. 21 (Xinhua) - China will deliver eight domestically
designed private business aircraft to Laos next year, in its latest
effort to find a niche in the international aviation market.

The Xiaoying 500, or "Eaglet 500," passed dynamic tests of seat and
restraint systems Monday, indicating the first China-made light
aircraft had met international standards and was ready for export,
said sources with the designer in Xi'an, capital of northwestern
Shaanxi Province.

The single-engine, five-seater aircraft was jointly developed by
domestic institutions, including the Shijiazhuang Aircraft Industry
Co. Ltd. in Hebei Province, the Xi'an-based No 1 Aircraft Designing
Institute affiliated to China Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC),
and the Civil Aviation Flight Institute.

It was granted an airworthiness certificate by the Civil Aviation
Administration of China (CAAC) in 2005.

The general-purpose light aircraft could fly at 300 kilometres per
hour and reach an altitude of 4,200 meters. It could take off and land
from small airports or, if necessary, highways, said Cui Bingfeng, a
press official with the No 1 Aircraft Designing Institute.

An agreement was reached between the manufacturer, the Shijiazhuang
Aircraft Industry Co. Ltd. and China National Aero- Technology Import
& Export Corporation (CATIC) in September to deliver eight aircraft to
Laos next year.

The Xiaoying 500 sells for 2.2 million to 2.9 million yuan (322,182 to
424,694 US dollars) each, at least 20 per cent cheaper than similar
products on the international market, he said.

Fourteen aircraft had been delivered to domestic users so far and
another 50 would be rolled out next year to meet the growing domestic
demand, said Cui.

It is estimated the number of private planes will increase from 11 in
2006 to 2,000 in 2020.

Liu Wanming, deputy director of CAAC's transport department, said in
October that his organization encouraged overseas investment in
general aviation companies and supported individual ownership of
private jets.

China's low-altitude airspace is controlled by the Air Force and the
CAAC. Private flights need approval, each time, and the procedure
takes at least half a day, making a private flight a less than
enticing event.

This year, the authorities made Guangdong Province and the northeast
region trial sites for opening the use of airspace below 1,000 meters.

If successful, this will lead to the gradual opening of low- level
airspace to private aircraft across the country.
Click to expand...
talks about export contract signed for 9 MA-60, but didn't say which country to
公司于 2009 年12 月18 日与中航技进出口有限责任公司在西安
市签订了9 架MA60 飞机购机合同，MA60 飞机的目录价格为单价
1,450 万美元，合同总金额将依据客户对飞机机型、选装、售后服务、
培训与备件的具体要求确定。
该合同的签订对公司本年度及未来的营业收入、净利润无重大影
响。
特此
Click to expand...
 
P

Pointblank

Senior Member
Schumacher said:
So many 'thought provoking' and 'insightful' analysis from our aviation 'experts' here. :)
I pick a few here.

"... In this field Comac is an unkown. They have no record of delivering a safe, reliable product. They have no established history under their belt - they need to build that..."

This one is very 'profound'. Before this, I guess everyone was expecting a newcomer to actually have a 'record'. Looks like we need to fix the definition of newcomer. Comac chiefs definitely need to read this, I think they never have any plan to deliver a safe and reliable product.

"...If the Chinese companies don't get their packages right (the perfect aircraft, technology, efficiency, reliability, and support), they will never make a dent in the global aviation industry..."

This is even better. Comac should also heed this call instead of continuing planning to make a dent in the industry by getting their package wrong instead of right and remember to make it 'perfect', as we all know, any thing less than 'perfect', like encountering mishap, will NEVER make it.:)
Click to expand...

Oh, this viewpoint has been backed up with very real lifetime examples. The failure of the de Havilland Aircraft Company was partially attributed to the commercial failure of their Comet jet airliner which had a structural design flaw. British Aerospace left the civil aviation industry due to lacklustre sales of many of their products, which weren't considered competitive enough against the competition. McDonnell-Douglas failed as a commercial airliner manufacturer due to the poor performance of their MD-11 airliner and lacklustre reception to their MD-95 airliner. The civil aerospace industry is a very cruel and unforgiving industry, where just one mistake can take down a company that dominated it.
 
M

montyp165

Senior Member
The C919 is supposed to be an advanced replacement for 737 and A320 jets, and would achieve market entry at the time when the early versions of those models reach retirement age.
 
lcloo

lcloo

Captain
Betting on C919 being a failure even before it is completed is simply speculative and trying to degrade China's capability.

If you study carefully, C919 will be manufactured with many advance equipment from international suppliers and with technical supports. The Chinese are well aware of the risk if they fail.

Now that we know they will be using the next generation engine from CFM, we will have to wait to see what avionics and other components they will be using.

Also, it will definite make a dent in international market, if Boeing and Airbus lose their market shares in China, that will take away a very big chunk of their profit on oversea sales. Losing sales of 1,000 passenger jets might even doom existing big manufacturer.
 
Quickie

Quickie

Colonel
We should not be looking only from the point of view of the airline operator but rather from the point of view of a country's economy.

The amount of economic activities generated from manufacturing your own commercial airline jets are going to be enormous. Even if we were to assume that the aircraft's pricetag , maintenance cost and fuel efficiency only matches those of an existing and already available aircraft, all these costs are actually money flowing back into the local economy - this compared to buying the aircraft from a foreign manufacturer with all the associated hidden costs. In addition, things can only look much brighter for the local aviation players.
 
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