Civilian Aviation Technology
- Thread starter coolieno99
- Start date
Schumacher
Senior Member
"...Most of all, it means an end to Chinese Government talk of creating national engine and other equipment champions. Telling Western suppliers that you want their latest and best while also creating national companies to compete with them guarantees obsolete content, and therefore another useless jet..."
"..China has a superb home market (just like the Soviet Union had)...."
Basically, this guy is trying to tell China to abandon any support of local firms, just to continue to buy Western. One wonders why, maybe fearful of future competition ?
One has to suspect his motivation or indeed knowledge considering that without various state support, even Boeing and Airbus etc would have been in serious trouble long ago.
You also have to question his knowledge of the aviation market if he really thinks the Chinese market/economy will be similar, in size etc, to the Soviet.
"..China has a superb home market (just like the Soviet Union had)...."
Basically, this guy is trying to tell China to abandon any support of local firms, just to continue to buy Western. One wonders why, maybe fearful of future competition ?
One has to suspect his motivation or indeed knowledge considering that without various state support, even Boeing and Airbus etc would have been in serious trouble long ago.
You also have to question his knowledge of the aviation market if he really thinks the Chinese market/economy will be similar, in size etc, to the Soviet.
Actually, I think the article has a point. Perhaps it'd be better for China to shore up its domestic firms after it's a bit more secure in the innovation department, and until then continue to rely on FDIs to help get it ahead. Though I can't agree with the article's confidence that at this point China will absolutely fail to capture a niche in the global commercial jet market, it is worth noting that there is a risk involved that China won't be able to carve out a niche in the already well developed highly advanced competitive industry between Boeing and Airbus.
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
An indegenous Chinese made airliner may have measure of success domestically, Interanational success is a different question. All you have to do is look at Locheed and MacDonald, who no longer make civilian passenger planes.
Huge govt support does not necessarily gaurantee success if one looks the chip manufacturing busines. eg SIMIC.
Huge govt support does not necessarily gaurantee success if one looks the chip manufacturing busines. eg SIMIC.
totally Irrelavant comparison, 2/3 world countries don't involved in IC business, plus there are too many palyers in the IC business.
Whereas 2/3 world countries do need to buy airplanes, and only 2 main players boeing, airbus in the whole market.
Taiwan and korea won't possibly join this plane making business and overcrowd this sector.
when you have too many asian players in one sector, you know it will be cutthroat business.... Airplane, none of them can touch it except China.
WHen you have a sector where there is none of other asian players, you know it will be a good business.
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
You've overlooked the fact that there use to be four,five if you count the Russians. Lockhead and Macdonald have since dropped out, and they werent small time players in the aeronautical business.
The problem is you're never going to get the profit margins to grow and compete with Airbus and Boeing just by selling planes to the 2/3 of the world where cheaper price comes before advanced features. Even if China could sell cheaper commercial jets to the countries you're thinking of (which I'm sure they will be able to), those countries wouldn't be buying in the mass volumes the developed countries will for Airbus and Boeing. They won't have as much need for air travel, nor would they have a big enough air infrastructure for China to exploit in a way that would help them make gains in the market outside of that small niche.
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lcloo
Captain
Brsides Airbus and Boeing, there are small manufacturers in Brazil (Embraer) and Canada (Bombadier). There is no reason why China should not built its own passenger jets. And there is no such thing as 100% domestic content civilian jets in the world, not Boeing, Airbus and others. Chinese jet will be no exception.
The main point is China decides on the design, built the planes and source the components from China or international suppliers in order to make the plane a success commercially.
C919 has a range and seat capacity most suitable for regional flights and is aimed at China'a domestic aviation market. There are now at least 1300 passenger planes flying in China, mostly made by Boeings and Airbus. Many of these jets will need to be replaced each year, and if C919 can get domestic orders of 600 jets spread in 20 years period, they will get their hands full just trying to make 30 planes a year.
The main point is China decides on the design, built the planes and source the components from China or international suppliers in order to make the plane a success commercially.
C919 has a range and seat capacity most suitable for regional flights and is aimed at China'a domestic aviation market. There are now at least 1300 passenger planes flying in China, mostly made by Boeings and Airbus. Many of these jets will need to be replaced each year, and if C919 can get domestic orders of 600 jets spread in 20 years period, they will get their hands full just trying to make 30 planes a year.
Quickie
Colonel
" An indegenous Chinese made airliner may have measure of success domestically, Interanational success is a different question. All you have to do is look at Locheed and MacDonald, who no longer make civilian passenger planes. "
There can't really be a direct comparison. Within the U.S., McDonnell Douglas had to compete with Boeing for the commercial airline jet business. In China, Comac, if they chose to, have only to compete with themselves which is not a good thing if this leads to competitive inefficiency , which is among the reasons why they've decided to allow foreigh suppliers into the competition with local suppliers. Furthermore, it's not necessary for the U.S. to keep McDonnell afloat since they already have Boeing. Mcdonnell Douglas actually merged with Boeing in 1997.
There can't really be a direct comparison. Within the U.S., McDonnell Douglas had to compete with Boeing for the commercial airline jet business. In China, Comac, if they chose to, have only to compete with themselves which is not a good thing if this leads to competitive inefficiency , which is among the reasons why they've decided to allow foreigh suppliers into the competition with local suppliers. Furthermore, it's not necessary for the U.S. to keep McDonnell afloat since they already have Boeing. Mcdonnell Douglas actually merged with Boeing in 1997.
Infra_Man99
Banned Idiot
China does need to improve domestic competitions, but China isn't using foreign companies for competition. China is using them for their experience. China is very aware of its naiveté on various topics compared to other nations, so China hires other nations to teach China their experience. The Chinese government sees China in "catch-up mode" right now.