Chinese Video/Computer Games

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
I don't want to go down the PC vs. Console rabbit hole as I think folks are generally familiar with the basic arguments on each side, and mostly set in their ways regardless, but certainly the 4070Ti-level pricing does further those conversations. Ultimately I think that PS5 Pro is a fairly niche product for folks who are both tech conscious and invested in the console ecosystem. The baseline PS5 offers the superior value proposition and will remain both the more commercially important model and still capable of delivering remarkable visual and entertainment experiences, including the
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Astro Bot which launched for the system just a few days ago.

PS5 launched in 2020 with both disc and digital-only SKUs available. With the Slim revision, Sony took the opportunity to eliminate the manufacturing differences between these two models, such that the disc model is now literally an all-digital model with one of the faceplates removed and a disc module put in its place. That both optimised production costs on the Sony side, while also offering owners of the all-digital system an upgrade path to integrate the drive later if they chose to do so. Despite this change in hardware configuration, on the retail side Sony continues to offer both disc and all-digital SKUs for consumers to choose from. It's only with PS5 Pro that they're no longer offering a disc-equipped SKU at retail. I wish things were otherwise, but I suspect that PS5 Pro being a relatively niche model in the first place made the economics of maintaining two separate SKUs for it unattractive, while the already high price of the system coupled with the telemetry that Sony undoubtedly has about use of the disc drive vs. downloads mitigated against including the drive in the baseline package. I don't like those choices, but I think we can understand them.

Clearly physical media is slowly dying on consoles just as it did on PC all those years ago, and it will be a sad day when that eventually happens. But in the here and now, one benefit of having a disc drive is the ability to play 4K Blu-Rays that remain the gold standard in terms of home video quality. That capability is gone from PC. I don't mean that you have to buy an internal or external drive, I mean that you simply can't do it: Intel removed the features from their CPUs required to jump through all the security hoops of that format some generations back, while AMD never integrated them in the first place. My understanding is that 4K Blu-Rays can be ripped and re-encoded on PC by various complicated means, but that one cannot simply put a disc in an internal or external drive and watch the film. Given that 4K Blu-Ray is almost certainly the last physical format, the final means by which consumers can actually own a film, rather than renting it from a streaming service, there is value in Playstation 5 still being part of that ecosystem, however much Sony is chipping away at it, whereas PC is simply not.
On PC you also have the option of hoisting the colours and storing all your "linux ISOs" on disk. I would trust the longevity of disk based copy of media any day over optical media. Doubly so if the hardware underneath is something elaborate like a DIY ZFS NAS server, which I am seeing an increase in userbase these days. Hell even Linus Sebastian got his own money invested in that software project aiming at making setting up ZFS easier for people that are not old seadogs.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
I don't want to go down the PC vs. Console rabbit hole as I think folks are generally familiar with the basic arguments on each side, and mostly set in their ways regardless, but certainly the 4070Ti-level pricing does further those conversations. Ultimately I think that PS5 Pro is a fairly niche product for folks who are both tech conscious and invested in the console ecosystem. The baseline PS5 offers the superior value proposition and will remain both the more commercially important model and still capable of delivering remarkable visual and entertainment experiences, including the
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Astro Bot which launched for the system just a few days ago.

PS5 launched in 2020 with both disc and digital-only SKUs available. With the Slim revision, Sony took the opportunity to eliminate the manufacturing differences between these two models, such that the disc model is now literally an all-digital model with one of the faceplates removed and a disc module put in its place. That both optimised production costs on the Sony side, while also offering owners of the all-digital system an upgrade path to integrate the drive later if they chose to do so. Despite this change in hardware configuration, on the retail side Sony continues to offer both disc and all-digital SKUs for consumers to choose from. It's only with PS5 Pro that they're no longer offering a disc-equipped SKU at retail. I wish things were otherwise, but I suspect that PS5 Pro being a relatively niche model in the first place made the economics of maintaining two separate SKUs for it unattractive, while the already high price of the system coupled with the telemetry that Sony undoubtedly has about use of the disc drive vs. downloads mitigated against including the drive in the baseline package. I don't like those choices, but I think we can understand them.

Clearly physical media is slowly dying on consoles just as it did on PC all those years ago, and it will be a sad day when that eventually happens. But in the here and now, one benefit of having a disc drive is the ability to play 4K Blu-Rays that remain the gold standard in terms of home video quality. That capability is gone from PC. I don't mean that you have to buy an internal or external drive, I mean that you simply can't do it: Intel removed the features from their CPUs required to jump through all the security hoops of that format some generations back, while AMD never integrated them in the first place. My understanding is that 4K Blu-Rays can be ripped and re-encoded on PC by various complicated means, but that one cannot simply put a disc in an internal or external drive and watch the film. Given that 4K Blu-Ray is almost certainly the last physical format, the final means by which consumers can actually own a film, rather than renting it from a streaming service, there is value in Playstation 5 still being part of that ecosystem, however much Sony is chipping away at it, whereas PC is simply not.
Just pirate bluray LMAO. No need to respect arbitrary barriers.
 

Lethe

Captain
On PC you also have the option of hoisting the colours and storing all your "linux ISOs" on disk. I would trust the longevity of disk based copy of media any day over optical media. Doubly so if the hardware underneath is something elaborate like a DIY ZFS NAS server, which I am seeing an increase in userbase these days. Hell even Linus Sebastian got his own money invested in that software project aiming at making setting up ZFS easier for people that are not old seadogs.

Indeed I have several terabytes of Linux ISOs, but I also spent a foolish amount of money to obtain a copy of Zavvi's limited
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for Apocalypse Now containing all three publicly available cuts of the film on glorious 4K Blu-Ray. I see the various paths as complementary rather than opposed to one another. For folks who attribute some value to that experience of physical ownership, it's a relevant factor in the overall PS5 and console equation. I'm not even sure I really want a PS5 Pro, but I've already bought the disc module in anticipation of potential stock issues around the release window.
 
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coolgod

Colonel
Registered Member
I would trust the longevity of disk based copy of media any day over optical media.
Just curious why you think that? I don't like optical media cause I'm clumsy but in long term storage doesn't optical media have an advantage over hard disks (magnetic and SSDs)?
 

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
Just curious why you think that? I don't like optical media cause I'm clumsy but in long term storage doesn't optical media have an advantage over hard disks (magnetic and SSDs)?
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Hard disks (and NAND based SSDs) on their own are hardly foolproof, but they can be clustered together into RAID arrays that provide redundancy where data isn't lost when some number of disks fail. So long as you replace the failed disk promptly and the array rebuilt they are damn near indestructible. Particularly if the RAID is built on technology with near autistic level of alertness against
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(ie ZFS and BTRFS).

Data center grade storage is built using the same type of technology, just at a larger scale with even more redundancy. It's like the most robust way to store information invented by mankind after stone tablets.

I've personally had an array (with plenty of Linux ISOs on them) that suffered 4 separate disk failures and migration across 3 different computers without any data loss across 10 year lifespan (and counting).

File servers don't have to mean giant room size machines that sounds like jet engines and guzzle power, for a person or family they can be pretty small. Here's one I'm working on for offsite backup at my parents house:

20240912_162411.jpg
 
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coolgod

Colonel
Registered Member
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Hard disks (and NAND based SSDs) on their own are hardly foolproof, but they can be clustered together into RAID arrays that provide redundancy where data isn't lost when some number of disks fail. So long as you replace the failed disk promptly and the array rebuilt they are damn near indestructible. Particularly if the RAID is built on technology with near autistic level of alertness against
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(ie ZFS and BTRFS).

Data center grade storage is built using the same type of technology, just at a larger scale with even more redundancy. It's like the most robust way to store information invented by mankind after stone tablets.

I've personally had an array (with plenty of Linux ISOs on them) that suffered 4 separate disk failures and migration across 3 different computers without any data loss across 10 year lifespan (and counting).
From what I've read and experienced, Blu-ray discs rarely get disc rot as long as you don't leave the disc out carelessly. I think if you factor in the potential effects of EMP after a nuclear exchange, optical media as a backup may seem more favourable.
 

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
From what I've read and experienced, Blu-ray discs rarely get disc rot as long as you don't leave the disc out carelessly. I think if you factor in the potential effects of EMP after a nuclear exchange, optical media as a backup may seem more favourable.
If there's a nuclear exchange you should be worried about clean water and food and bottlecaps!
Although to be fair, after a nuclear exchange pre-war knowledge would be useful. An offline copy of the entire wikipedia is about 20GB if text only and 100GB with the images (excluding all the history and edits and metadata). You could fit that easily on your RAID array and just barely on a R/W bluray. You'll just need to set up a methane power plant to power up your PC/PS5.
 

BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
Just curious why you think that? I don't like optical media cause I'm clumsy but in long term storage doesn't optical media have an advantage over hard disks (magnetic and SSDs)?
I think the average hdd life time is like 5~6 years or at least thats what im told at college. Disk should be way longer if its stored correctly but i also heard people seeing their disks failing after like 8~11 years because of bad storage.

If i bought the game digitally or on disk i have absolutely no issue downloading its iso online and playing a cracked version. But given how a lot of games now have an always online mode you also need to have an server online. Wish law makers would do something about such a situation that if a publisher decides to pull the plug they either have to open source the server code or release an server executable.
 

Lethe

Captain
Digital Foundry is back with another look at Black Myth: Wukong. The first half of the video uses a PS5-equivalent PC to explore potential improvements to the game's current rendering modes on PS5, while the second half takes a look at what may be possible on PS5 Pro and also the challenges of bringing the game to Xbox Series S:

 
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