Chinese UCAV/CCA/flying wing drones (ISR, A2A, A2G) thread

[Blitzo]

That medium bypass engine on the Il-76 testbed was spotted in 2023(assuming it even was the first test flight) if I remember correctly, it's foreseeable that engine could be certified and in LRIP by now considering most engines really only take 1-2 years between first flight and certification(Like GE90 took 14 months only from first flight to full certification and thats commercial as well with all the delays and emission/noise standards that probably doesn't matter for military engines). Especially considering that H-20 is due to take first flight in the next 18 months by the latest. As for engine cross sectional footprint, the testbed has tiny D-30KP engines with fan diameter of only ~1.05m judging by the test engine's size it could have a diameter of ~1.5m or so. It's quite likely it is small enough to be fitted into a UAV of this size.
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Take B-21 as an example, it uses two PW-9000 engines likely with similar dimensions and thrust as that new engine and it could fit into the "thinner" part of the fuselage beside the cockpit and behind the intake(Where you can see a small hump). It could have two engines mounted close together sharing a large central intake as a potential configuration due to the lack of a cockpit. This UAV with a likely MTOW similar to the B-21 is more easily powered by two 120kN class H-20 engines than two non-AB WS-10s with ~90kN each IMO.

I do not consider there to be particularly solid evidence that the Il-76 testbed was testing a new medium bypass engine which would be in an appropriate thrust class for a UAV like this.

Furthermore, even if it is testing a new medium bypass engine of appropriate thrust, it would be bold to think it would already be ready for application for a new large UAV like this.

... If anything I think people should already be content with the idea of this new large UAV being powered by two WS-10 variants -- it's always possible this thing is powered by a couple of turbojets.


I encourage everyone to appropriately set their expectations for the PRC serpentine industry and the PLA's appetite for serpentine risk.
You would think the recent news about J-20A and WS-10/15 would have taught everyone a lesson.

 

[Tomboy]

I encourage everyone to appropriately set their expectations for the PRC serpentine industry and the PLA's appetite for serpentine risk.
You would think the recent news about J-20A and WS-10/15 would have taught everyone a lesson.

Welp, maybe I'm on copium but hopefully this new UAV isn't the latest in line for "Cool plane ruined by shitty engine".

It isn't all bad tho, WS-20 was right on schedule and is seeing mass deployment while WS-15 is troubled by supply chain not keeping up with J-20 production rate instead of a technical issue but this UAV is likely a very low volume product so I doubt supply chain would be an issue this time.

 

[Red tsunami]

For manned aircraft of their respective weight classes and planforms, their range is quite good.

Which medium bypass turbofan does china have which is available and appropriate for a UAV like this?

Think not only in terms of technological maturity, but also in terms of cross sectional footprint, and also thrust.
Keep in mind this UAV very well may have a MTOW in excess of 60t.

For two WS-10 variants, they are likely to at least able to power this aircraft with two engines.

I am not aware of a medium bypass engine they have available that is of sufficient thrust class to enable propulsion with two engines sets (let alone one)

WS-18?

 

[Blitzo]

Welp, maybe I'm on copium but hopefully this new UAV isn't the latest in line for "Cool plane ruined by shitty engine".

It isn't all bad tho, WS-20 was right on schedule and is seeing mass deployment while WS-15 is troubled by supply chain not keeping up with J-20 production rate instead of a technical issue but this UAV is likely a very low volume product so I doubt supply chain would be an issue this time.

Well, I'm of the belief that a non AB modern WS-10 variant would be an appropriate powerplant.

While a more modern medium bypass engine would be more optimized, I also think non AB WS-10s could be fine. Because it can be still worse than that -- remember turbojets exist.

WS-18?

A reverse engineered D-30 would be something I consider as a downgrade from a non AB WS-10 (though not as bad as turbojets). But yes it is an option in terms of powerplant possibilities.

 

[Tomboy]

Well, I'm of the belief that a non AB modern WS-10 variant would be an appropriate powerplant.

While a more modern medium bypass engine would be more optimized, I also think non AB WS-10s could be fine. Because it can be still worse than that -- remember turbojets exist.

I guess it is possible they made a specially made WS-10 variant like F-118(Apparently it isn't just a F-110 with no afterburners, it had a tailor-made low-pressure section and probably a new nozzle for subsonic endurance. U-2's F-118 had a new hot section for better TBO and efficiency) so this drone could cruise extremely high like the U-2 as one of the advantages of low bypass turbofan is high specific thrust, thus suffers less at altitude than high bypass turbofans that relies on mass flow. It could be possible with those high aspect ratio wings IMO and in fact at those extreme altitudes low bypass turbofan could have similar if not lower TSFC compared to high bypass turbofans.

Tbf, I personally think this UAV is a major investment and should be counted as a strategic level project similar to the H-20 as such it makes sense for them to give it a specially modded WS-10 at the minimum.

 

[Tiberium]

Let's assume the wildest: MQ-Next like. With heavy fuel piston engine and ducted fan, the ultra-high fuel efficiency.

 

[AndrewS]

Recently, China officially claimed that its latest UHF/VHF radars are already capable to detect, aim, and guide SAM to aerial super stealth targets in a quick loop. It's called JY-27V, which solved the traditional issue that VHF can't aim & lack of precision, according to its Manufacturer CETC.

So, forget about low freq radars can't achieve weapon-level tracking and guidance.

Manufacturer claims on CCTV:

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The articles only reference F-35 and F-22s, which have tail control surfaces.
Not stealth aircraft with a single flat surface (such as the B-2, B-21, J-36 etc)

Also consider, if low-frequency radar can defeat aircraft sized radar stealth, why bother developing the J-36 or J-XDS with exotic control surfaces, instead of tailfins?

 

[zyklon]

That seems to still be too large for this aircraft, which I would imagine is quite thin. Also, doesn't fit the timeline

View attachment 154624

This is a very interesting graph if true. Such a large wing is going to be a beast for range and high power antenna. Take the human related stuff out of this and the range and patrol time is going to be very impressive.

Assuming the above WZ-X is indeed analogous to the RQ-180 as many seem to suspect, then we ought to remain open to the possibility that it's designed with one or more IWBs. One obvious reason for this is that the WZ-X is visibly larger than the RQ-180, which is reportedly closer to the B-21 rather than the B-2 in size:



On top of that, there are extant claims that the

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, and even calls for

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.

TBH I'm not particularly convinced that it's worthwhile to integrate what would most likely be a fairly limited strike capability into the WZ-X. However, what's perhaps more valuable in this instance is that an IWB can be used to store and launch non-kinetic air launched effects (ALE), be it expendable-ish SUAS platforms intended to collect intelligence or conduct EW, sonobuoys for identifying and tracking targets at sea, or even communication nodes for resisting EW in highly contested battlespace.

Lastly, if the US Army and not even the USAF is giving its

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, then it shouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility that the PLAAF would possess the wisdom to design an IWB into the WZ-X.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

飞扬军事铁背心: *Posting about news of wargame strategies on how the US military plans to utilize its CCA in a future war against the PLA's aerial forces*

Adorable Whale, quote-posting: "Lol, believe it or not, just like manned 6th-gen fighters/warplanes, China is also the first one to have CCA coming out"

Otter, quote-posting: "(The Chinese CCA) already came out"


(PS: I don't think it's the Dark Sword. Should be something else, if not something new.)

 

[Jason_]

飞扬军事铁背心: *Posting about news of wargame strategies on how the US military plans to utilize its CCA in a future war against the PLA's aerial forces*

Adorable Whale, quote-posting: "Lol, believe it or not, just like manned 6th-gen fighters/warplanes, China is also the first one to have CCA coming out"

Otter, quote-posting: "(The Chinese CCA) already came out"

View attachment 154843
(PS: I don't think it's the Dark Sword. Should be something else, if not something new.)

The "posting about wargame strategies" refers to

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(written by an Indian who also writes for Eurasian Times) which references a wargame from 2024 and contains no new information. The wargame itself is a joke as well with its insane setup.