Chinese UAV/UCAV development

hmmwv · Oct 27, 2012

tphuang said:
I guess Sky Wing is a little further along than Soaring Dragon, then? Will be interesting to see when and where these UAVs get delivered to and what their PLAAF designation will be.

That's my opinion too, the Sky Wing / Long Haul Eagle is a joint CAC/GAC project and test flights were primarily done at Anshun. Serial production could also take place there while CAC serves mainly as the R&D/initial serial production location.

Totoro said:
they seriously need to change the engines on their UAVs. just changing the current projected wp13 engine on Soar dragon with ws13 should do wonders for its endurance.

Don't worry, Soaring Dragon won't fly with WP13.

hmmwv · Oct 27, 2012

Bltizo said:
I wonder why PLA are going for two different models of HALE UAVs.

They have the BZK-005 for medium altitude, surveillance (it would be nice if they could hook it up with a few HJ-10s, I'm not sure why only Pterodactyl has been shown to be integrated with the weapons), but both xianglong and long haul eagle(?)/sky wing for HALE? I suppose xianglong is a bigger platform than long haul eagle, with the relevant higher capability in range/endurance/payload, and they may end up equipping different services as well.

But then there's the reaper+global hawk UAV we saw a few years ago as well, which also seems a little bit smaller than long haul eagle but is clearly meant to be a HALE uav.

So there's three different HALE UAV projects going on at the moment, all in slightly different weight classes. What's the deal.

actually wait, in the background in the hangar, could that be the reaper/global hawk uav:

Instead of another long haul eagle? The radome/fuselage colour and angle blend seems identical to the reaper/global hawk uav prototype we saw a few years back (sky wing or whatever it is. All these uav names are tiring)

Soaring Dragon and Sky Wing will effectively replace BZK005 as the strategic UAV while the latter being handed down to MR control, Soaring Dragon with its much greater payload is the platform of choice for a variety of missions such as communication relay, EW, or even IFR. The Pterodactyl (long range) and CH3 (medium range) will be the backbone of the armed UAV fleet, the ASN-209 series will be the standard issue recon UAV for PLAAF/PLA.

Quickie · Oct 27, 2012

Totoro said:
they seriously need to change the engines on their UAVs. just changing the current projected wp13 engine on Soar dragon with ws13 should do wonders for its endurance. its slightly lighter engine, some 10mm wider and half a meter shorter. Should be doable IF such a development was taken under consideration during design. Then again, maybe the whole assumption about wp13 is bollocks, as the plane hasnt even flown yet, right?

Which means it's something positive if the figures are based on the use of a turbojet engine since there's much room for improvement if the turbofan is used instead. So, we could be looking at a range improvement from 7000 km to 9000 km or even more. Any official confirmation on the type of engine that is used on the Soaring Dragon or other types of UAV?

Blitzo · Oct 27, 2012

hmmwv said:
Soaring Dragon and Sky Wing will effectively replace BZK005 as the strategic UAV while the latter being handed down to MR control, Soaring Dragon with its much greater payload is the platform of choice for a variety of missions such as communication relay, EW, or even IFR. The Pterodactyl (long range) and CH3 (medium range) will be the backbone of the armed UAV fleet, the ASN-209 series will be the standard issue recon UAV for PLAAF/PLA.

It makes sense for BZK005 to be replaced with xianglong and sky wing.

Yet that leaves the "long haul eagle" mini global hawk out in the cold, yet we are seeing one, possibly two prototypes in that picture. I wonder if long haul eagle and sky wing were possibly competing for the same role in PLA, and sky wing lost (which is why we haven't seen any signs of it since those two years or so ago?)

Also, despite CH-3 and pterodactyl being on the market (including export) for so long we have yet to see any indications of adoption by PLA, not even any models of them with PLA roundel.

delft · Oct 27, 2012

no_name said:
Is there any niche for an osprey type UAV, and what role might it play?

Googling "tilt rotor uav" gave me 148 000 hits today.

Blitzo · Oct 27, 2012

hmmwv said:
That's my opinion too, the Sky Wing / Long Haul Eagle is a joint CAC/GAC project and test flights were primarily done at Anshun. Serial production could also take place there while CAC serves mainly as the R&D/initial serial production location.

I am quite sure sky wing and long haul eagle are two different projects, or at least planes?

I mean they look similar and similarly sized too, but the models displayed at airshows and expos make me think they are not one and the same or evolutions of each other.

no_name said:
Is there any niche for an osprey type UAV, and what role might it play?

Well the Bell eagle eye is basically what you are describing.

Whether future osprey type UAVs come into mainstream or not will depend on the proliferation and development of tilt rotor VTOL aircraft in general.
Any questions as to what advantages an osprey type UAV may have over traditional VTOL UAVs can be answered by comparing osprey with standard configuration helicopters.
Namely, faster and higher cruise speed/altitude, but somewhat decreased payload. I also think a small sized tilt rotor UAV may take up more space than a standard helicopter UAV as its inherently small size cannot allow for the relevant machinery to have the wings and rotors to be stored in a compact fashion like the osprey.

hmmwv · Oct 27, 2012

The Sky Wing is clearly in production as we can see two frames at CAC, I have yet to see Long Haul Eagle, which I believe is essentially the same plane, possibly reengined since the model has what appears to be larger engine housing. What's likely is that it's just the second generation Sky Wing and yet to enter prototype stage while Sky Wing is in production. This has happened before, both Wing Loong and Pterodactyl look different but they are actually the same program, the Pterodactyl is actually called Wing Loong I depends on AVIC's choice of translators. So name is really not that important, AVIC has so much freedom to play with those common platforms that it's extremely difficult to keep track of them.

I think Wing Loong --> Pterodactyl I / Wing Loong I --> Air Sniper are the same platform but with small tweaks among them.

This is a picture of CH3 at a PLAAF base, but I agree that there is no confirmation that it has entered PLAAF service.

tphuang · Oct 29, 2012

hmmwv said:
The Sky Wing is clearly in production as we can see two frames at CAC, I have yet to see Long Haul Eagle, which I believe is essentially the same plane, possibly reengined since the model has what appears to be larger engine housing. What's likely is that it's just the second generation Sky Wing and yet to enter prototype stage while Sky Wing is in production. This has happened before, both Wing Loong and Pterodactyl look different but they are actually the same program, the Pterodactyl is actually called Wing Loong I depends on AVIC's choice of translators. So name is really not that important, AVIC has so much freedom to play with those common platforms that it's extremely difficult to keep track of them.

I think Wing Loong --> Pterodactyl I / Wing Loong I --> Air Sniper are the same platform but with small tweaks among them.

This is a picture of CH3 at a PLAAF base, but I agree that there is no confirmation that it has entered PLAAF service.
View attachment 7016

Interesting, I don't think I've seen any pictures of Pterodactyl for a while now. Wonder what the status of it is. If I remember correctly, they got an export order before.

Soaring Eagle seems to be quite a bit larger than Sky Wing from the factory photos.

I think long haul eagle is probably just abandoned.

hmmwv · Oct 30, 2012

tphuang said:
Interesting, I don't think I've seen any pictures of Pterodactyl for a while now. Wonder what the status of it is. If I remember correctly, they got an export order before.

Soaring Eagle seems to be quite a bit larger than Sky Wing from the factory photos.

I think long haul eagle is probably just abandoned.

Both Pterodactyl (UAE) and CH3 (Indonesia) have export orders, I agree that there is no indication that the former is in PLA service.

SteelBird · Nov 9, 2012

On Zhuhai airshow 2012, a Chinese UAV named Wing Loong is prepared to be displayed. What I feel funny of it is the name is
翼龙 or Wing Loong in English which means something about a dragon; however the drawing on it is an eagle.

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Chinese UAV/UCAV development

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