Chinese UAV/UCAV development

hmmm, a bit off topic, but I can't help to make a comment of the above post

VCR was invented by Philips, not by American

jon88 said:

I agree that American drones are not just better in terms of engine performance, even the gadgets packed in them too are more advance. However, at the same time I feel that American drones tend to "overkill" technologically or have firepower that is too overwhelming for the tasks at hand. Basically, American drones are just too"over-qualified" to be effective when only basic and disposable drones are required to do the job. Kinda reminded me of the time when American invented & manufactured VCRs were used in high end broadcasting centres but Japanese VCR manufacturers (using American technology) made all the killings with the massive low end home VCR market. American companies need a new paradigm when it comes to drone exports.

Click to expand...

Maybe it's time for US to establish hi-low drone mixes. Top drones for US only, high-end drones for friends and allies, but with strings attached, and low-end drones for mass export and with few or even no strings attached. There's no reason US should concede the low-end drone market to anyone, and its endless stable of entrepreneurs could produce cost-effective drones to compete with anyone.

Blackstone said:

Maybe it's time for US to establish hi-low drone mixes. Top drones for US only, high-end drones for friends and allies, but with strings attached, and low-end drones for mass export and with few or even no strings attached. There's no reason US should concede the low-end drone market to anyone, and its endless stable of entrepreneurs could produce cost-effective drones to compete with anyone.

Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about that.

This isn't a garage project, you need a sizeable company with significant high tech capital investment to even play this game.

This is where the American model struggles compared to China's.

Americans overwhelmingly believe in the magic of market forces, that the best thing governments can do is nothing. The most famous made in America start ups all tend to be self funded projects with minimal or no direct government assistance - garage projects.

That just won't cut it with something as advanced and capital intensive as military drones. Heck, just look at the much lower tech civilian drone market, where Chinese firms also dominate both the high and low end.

Unless the US government is willing to do as the Chinese government has - hold regular drone competitions and then investing to set up companies with the winners and most promising candidates, military drones in the US will be limited to those made by established big private military contractors, with all the waste and problems endemic with them.

It's pretty ironic that 'communist' China is doing a better job at unlocking the latent potential of private enterprise with direct state intervention than unabashedly capitalist America, with its hard coded free market ideals.

Without meaning to get too off track, but I think the biggest difference is in terms of mentality. The Chinese can best be summed up by the word 'pragmatic', whereas 'dogmatic' seems to fit today's America best.

Much of the 'unimaginative' and 'copying' accusations thrown at China stems from Chinese pragmatism. Simply put, the Chinese don't see the point or value in deliberately re-inventing the wheel just to have one distinctly different yet do the same job. They would prefer to just take an existing wheel design and focus their resources and imagination on adding functionality that previous designs lacked. That is a huge part of how China has managed to make up so much ground in so little time - that while American companies wasted time, resources and talent repeatedly starting from scratch, Chinese companies stood on the shoulder of giants and focused their efforts on the latest technologies and applications.

That is the reason why Chinese 'knock-offs' often have more and better functionality than the originals they are supposed to be copies off.

Where Chinese products often fell down in the past was the lack of robust testing and quality control, helping to create the negative 'cheap' reputation.

Again, this is an area where state intervention can and has helped to improve.

To sum up, American military drones are unlikely to become competitive st the low end of the market without a huge cultural shift in America, that I just cannot see happening right now.

The US government need to take a massive, proactive, leading role in setting up medium tech start-ups with enough capital and technology to compete in the military drone world.

Putting aside the philosophical controversy of that in the 'free-market USA', just the influence of the big PMCs and the vested interests around them would kill off any government initiative that could create powerful rivals to challenge their established position and profits.

Not sure about the non-involvement of the US govnt in small start-up companies. I know nothing about the defense industry. However, in biotech industry, NIH offers huge amount of money to small businesses annually. My former postdoc mentor has a small Pharmaceutical company (about 5-6 employees total). And they they have gotten small business grants from both the federal and Texas state agencies. These grants are no small pocket change either. It's $1-3 million each with a duration between 2-3 years. I'm sure defense industry would be similar... In fact, I know so. We also apply DoD grants. And their website clearly lists many categories of small business funds to support "garage projects".

My understanding is that the US is a firm believer of the benefit of small businesses. And the federal and state govn'ts have done everything they could to support small businesses. Each state govnt offers big incentives to small business owners.

Looks like a Saudi CH-4 was shot down over Yemen said to from an anti-aircraft missile.

AssassinsMace said:

Looks like a Saudi CH-4 was shot down over Yemen said to from an anti-aircraft missile.

View attachment 24936 View attachment 24937

Click to expand...

It looks a bit small to be a CH-4 to be honest.

Bltizo said:

It looks a bit small to be a CH-4 to be honest.

Click to expand...

Yeah I thought the CH-4 was bigger. But then it was hit by a missile... I looked at pictures of the CH-4 to see if the intake vent was similar and I found out there are two or three different types on the CH-4.

Does anyone have anything on Chinese swarm development?

Just been reading the piece on US swarm development below, and been thinking that China should easily be able to do something better given that Shenzhen in China is already the global centre for the open-source hardware revolution. It is where everyone in Silicon Valley does their prototyping and production for smartphone technology and small drones because you can't beat the combination of speed, cost and the availability of the latest commercial technology. They're lagging on 3D prototyping, but the global patents expire soon, so they catch up in less than 5 years.

On a strategic note, instead of developing small numbers of very expensive, complex and high-performance aircraft - large number of low-cost military drones with decent-enough technology would suit potential Chinese military operations very well.

Any confirmation on if CH-4 was shot down in Yeman or lost for engine/mechanical/electrical reasons?

Blackstone said:

Any confirmation on if CH-4 was shot down in Yeman or lost for engine/mechanical/electrical reasons?

Click to expand...

I doubt we'll have access to that kind of information.

I'd be more interested as to whether it was lost due to operator problems (such as pilots following incorrect procedures, or ground crew performing incompetent maintenance), or if it was a problem due to the manufacturer.