plawolf
Lieutenant General
Well, it is the Saudis we are talking about here. The country with the world's 3rd highest defence budget, yet who is actually loosing Saudi territory to the Yemeni rebels.
Chinese UAV/UCAV development
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Well, it is the Saudis we are talking about here. The country with the world's 3rd highest defence budget, yet who is actually loosing Saudi territory to the Yemeni rebels.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
Cut them some slack, Wolf. It is the first time that the KSA has undertaken a military operation in decades and the first instance in which they dedicated combined arms to the conflict. It is pretty inconceivable for them to fare as well as their battle-seasoned US allies, especially against a guerrilla group with decades of fighting experience.
The PLA also had its fair share of defeats during the Korean War (look at the casualty ratio).
plawolf
Lieutenant General
No one ever expected them to approach US standards, but they have truly smashed even the most pessimistic expectations before the onset of hostilities.
No amount of battle experience can teach you a will to fight, and the Saudi military just seem to lack that.
Comparing them to the PLA during the Korean War is an insult to the PLA, and there are vastly conflicting casualty estimates for the PLA during the Korean War, even amongst western estimates.
If you insist on using the Korean War as a comparison, the Saudis should instead take on the role of the US, who enjoyed overwhelming superiority in weapons tech, yet still found themselves outfought by an opponent with only basic weaponry, but who had more recent battle experience and a stronger will to win.
Quickie
Colonel
Have you been checking out the Wikipedia? Most of its articles on China, be it military hardware/technology, politics, historical facts, are more like propaganda piece than anything else.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
Can you elaborate on how you came to the conclusion that Saudis lack the "will" to fight? They have dedicated a serious part of their military arsenal for this operation and all we know thus far is that they have been making slow progress against the Houthi rebels. The relatively-high Saudi casualties can be attributed to a lack of recent combat experience, poor training, poor leadership, or a combination of the three. A lack of combat morale can be evidently noted by Saudi defections or surrenders, none of which have occurred to date.
The "PLA" (most of the Chinese forces consisted of volunteers) had no more of a "will to fight" than the Iraqis during the Gulf War, but that's another topic for another thread.
I think the first point of contention to resolve, is you comparing PLA performance in the Korean war with the Saudis in their Yemen operations... which is completely illogical given the difference in capability and technology both sides had in their respective operations.
If anything I think the high tech and high capability Saudi military in Yemen can be compared with the US/UN forces in Korea, and the PLA/PVA in Korea can be compared with the Houthis, if one was really trying to force a Korean War analogy.
Extremely off topic, but here's a piece by a third-party observer on Arab culture and its influence on their war-fighting capabilities. The piece is written quite a while ago and the equipment has been updated. However, the culture remains the same and Arab armies remain similarly handicapped from several decades ago.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
Fair enough, but the crux of my argument is that it is perfectly normal for any organized fighting force to take some losses in their first major operation, especially against a group that is battle-hardened and experienced. As the PLA had experienced heavy losses in their nascent conflicts, the Saudi military is expected to go through the same kind of ordeal.
Perhaps the Korean War wasn't the best of all analogies.
Equation
Lieutenant General
The Saudis are not going to risk men and resources rather they want someone else to do the fighting for them. They are just dipping their feet into the water, instead of diving in.
I can agree that it is normal for fighting forces to experience losses and/or setbacks, and in the case of Saudi Arabia this is their first major independently led operation so it's not unreasonable to expect a less than stellar first performance.
There is no reason to bring the PLA or the Korean War to illustrate your point at all given the difficulty in having an accurate analogy.
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As for Saudi Arabia's performance in Yemen, I do not think it is fair to say that they lack a "will to fight" or anything like that, but rather that they've already picked the low hanging fruit (using their overwhelming air power to drive initial successes), but now they are finding it difficult to fight a ground war against a force of irregular guerrillas despite their vast technological advantages.
That is not too different to any other conflict of this kind involving boots on the ground.
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