Chinese Trainer Aircraft (JL-8, JL-9, JL-10 (L-15), etc.)

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Amazing, is that the first PESA radar the Chinese have developed for aircraft?

Why not AESA? Cost?

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Skywatcher said:

Amazing, is that the first PESA radar the Chinese have developed for aircraft?

Why not AESA? Cost?

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no,the antenna I see in CCTV-9 was fix slotted array antenna.the whole radar was small range only radar similiar to israel el/M-2001B to provide data for HUD.
but her cockpit is more advance than J-10A,similiar to FC-1.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

The only thing I miss for naval use is an undercarriage better adapted to the use of sky jump. But perhaps that had better been tried on an initial aircraft carrier training aircraft. Something similar to the Westland Wyvern, but with a two stage tail wheel gear, two engines driving a modern coax propeller. And of course a properly designed fuel system.
This would be a good sized aircraft to develop the integration of sky jump and EM catapult.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Huitongs website (I just noticed this) says that the L-15 is rumored to be developed into a light attack craft called the Q-6. How feasible is this? Would this be a replacement for the Q-5?

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Centrist said:

Huitongs website (I just noticed this) says that the L-15 is rumored to be developed into a light attack craft called the Q-6. How feasible is this? Would this be a replacement for the Q-5?

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The L-15 is a very, very odd choice for an attack aircraft. It has an extremely light payload, very short legs, and a poor loitering time. I don't really see how the L-15 would be a good choice for a successor to the Q-5 at all unless it was heavily, heavily redesigned because as it stands its not a very ideal platform for CAS, COIN, anti-armour, SEAD, or strike. In my opinion, the JL-8 would make a better CAS and COIN aircraft and the JH-7A and Su-30MKK already perform most of these tasks already fairly well.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Centrist said:

Huitongs website (I just noticed this) says that the L-15 is rumored to be developed into a light attack craft called the Q-6. How feasible is this? Would this be a replacement for the Q-5?

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Consider this scheme for the K-8.

Given the information on the L-15 received from Zhuhai 2010 it doesn't look nearly as bad as it might otherwise be. Anyway so far it just seems to be a Hongdu project, if at all. Start worrying about it when (and if) the L-15 gets its first orders. It makes sense for them to want to to retain their share in the Q-5 niche.

I doubt it'll be called Q-6, but you never know.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Semi-Lobster said:

The L-15 is a very, very odd choice for an attack aircraft. It has an extremely light payload, very short legs, and a poor loitering time. I don't really see how the L-15 would be a good choice for a successor to the Q-5 at all unless it was heavily, heavily redesigned because as it stands its not a very ideal platform for CAS, COIN, anti-armour, SEAD, or strike. In my opinion, the JL-8 would make a better CAS and COIN aircraft and the JH-7A and Su-30MKK already perform most of these tasks already fairly well.

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3.5 tonnes is nearly twice the payload of the Q-5, and for a light aircraft it's very respectable. Indeed, the latest version of its specs as far as airframe goes outperforms the Q-5 in all respects. (You know, a few posts above this one. The one you replied to)

Whether a CAS bird still has a place in modern PLAAF doctrine is another matter altogether, but it makes sense for Hongdu to think about developing it.

Semi-Lobster said:

Any idea what the PESA radar used is?

Wow those are some very impressive features, it seems that its already better than South Korea's FA-50 fighter upgrade to the T-50 which is using a PD Radar.

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If you read the interview, Tphuang's translation was in error. What the article in fact said was that it has greater space so it could be fitted with a PESA. There's no mention of it actually being fitted with one.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Troika said:

3.5 tonnes is nearly twice the payload of the Q-5, and for a light aircraft it's very respectable. Indeed, the latest version of its specs as far as airframe goes outperforms the Q-5 in all respects. (You know, a few posts above this one. The one you replied to)

Whether a CAS bird still has a place in modern PLAAF doctrine is another matter altogether, but it makes sense for Hongdu to think about developing it.

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You are right about the payload (and range for that matter) being better than the Q-5 but I was thinking of a comparison more along the lines to the Su-25. The L-15 while more than the Q-5, would still be less than the Su-25, JH-7 or Su-30MKK but it would be an improvement over the Q-5 though.

In my opinion attack aircraft are generally getting increasingly more specialized, the trend seems to be dividing the traditional attack role between dedicated light, slow COIN aircraft (as seen by the increasing interest in aircraft such as the Super Tucano, AT-802U, AT-6B) and strike fighters such as the Su-34 and F-15E for anti-armour and SEAD operations. The Georgian War showed what happens when anti-aircraft operations are not properly undertaken before an attack operation. The Russians, although completely dominant, lost far more aircraft (including a relatively advanced Tu-22M) than they should have to a country (Georgia) who had a relatively ramshackle air defence network.

I'm sure an attack L-15 would be an excellent export aircraft but I am also unsure of its place in the PLAAF.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Troika said:

If you read the interview, Tphuang's translation was in error. What the article in fact said was that it has greater space so it could be fitted with a PESA. There's no mention of it actually being fitted with one.

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Unfortunately tphuang's article was originally in Chinese and I must admit my Characters knowledge is firmly at a kindergarten level, if the article was about saying hello, or describing a brown dog or asking where the library was, I would be certain to be able to understand, but thats about as far as I can go when it comes to characters

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Semi-Lobster said:

You are right about the payload (and range for that matter) being better than the Q-5 but I was thinking of a comparison more along the lines to the Su-25. The L-15 while more than the Q-5, would still be less than the Su-25, JH-7 or Su-30MKK but it would be an improvement over the Q-5 though.

In my opinion attack aircraft are generally getting increasingly more specialized, the trend seems to be dividing the traditional attack role between dedicated light, slow COIN aircraft (as seen by the increasing interest in aircraft such as the Super Tucano, AT-802U, AT-6B) and strike fighters such as the Su-34 and F-15E for anti-armour and SEAD operations. The Georgian War showed what happens when anti-aircraft operations are not properly undertaken before an attack operation. The Russians, although completely dominant, lost far more aircraft (including a relatively advanced Tu-22M) than they should have to a country (Georgia) who had a relatively ramshackle air defence network.

I'm sure an attack L-15 would be an excellent export aircraft but I am also unsure of its place in the PLAAF.

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Like I said, I didn't comment on whether it fits modern PLAAF doctrine, but you can see where they are coming from.

Look at the Hongdu roster:

Q-5
CJ-5
CJ-6
K-8
L-15 supersonic trainer
Hongdu N-5 multi-use agriculture & forest aircraft
MD500 series heloes
Yun-5 (Y-5) light utility/transport biplane

Of these, the CJs and Q-5 are on their way out. L-15 is an uncertain prospect, though looking better. The MDs are in very low production. Only K-8 is selling well.

Given their lack of R&D prowess, it's entirely natural they want a light CAS successor to the Q-5, and tie its fortune to the LIFT they also hope to sell.

BTW, the Tu-22M shot down in the Five Day War, it was a MR forced to fly a recon mission for reasons I need not go into. If it was following proper doctrine it won't even have flown to within 100 km of Georgian air space...