Chinese tradition, ceremony,culture

Hendrik_2000 said:

We should not try to cover or justified a asocial behavior. The central government recognized this problem and try to educate the people how to behave in public by instituting social credit.
It is a bit harsh but yea I can understand the reason

China too is homogeneous 90% of the population are Han And Japan copy almost everything from China including etiquette and custom .Even the peasant in Japan has relatively good etiquette So I won't necessarily blame poverty or education for the lack of etiquette. Culture and upbringing has more to do with it . That is why I said that Xi effort to return to the traditional culture should be applauded whole heartedly

I mean I don't blame mainland Chinese. I do have high respect for them for their hard work and dedication Circumstances make people different All those dislocation war and chaos take their toll. compounded by political infighting and the need to survive in 80's and 90's does not lend itself to etiquette and niceties
Contrast that to the relative piece that Japan enjoy 350 years of Tokugawa reign give them plenty of time for refined life

Peasantry has nothing to do with etiquette Most of overseas Chinese are descendant of riff raff, petty criminal and landless peasantry. But even the lowest peasant has kernel of culture in them
They might not know the poem of Li Bai or Qu Yuan But they know what is proper and what is not.As soon as they have money they hire teacher from China to teach their children proper etiquette

LKY himself acknowledge this fact in his conversation with Deng. There is no doubt as to who has the better pedigree. He said the best and brightest does not immigrate. He said he has no doubt that China will achieved high development even better than Singapore

I have no doubt that as China prosper and maintain stability those etiquette will return. You can see in the huge interest of Chinese traditional value and etiquette
And debate going on now as what it mean to be Chinese

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No objection to anything else you are saying (especially agree that education of social behavior is necessary), except this one highlighted. It seems you have a very narrow understanding of what Han really is, how it is evolved, and how big difference there is among different group of Han.

As @solarz has said, Han itself is not homogeneous at all. It was a snowball rolling since the very beginning of the Chinese civilization. Without the "barbarian" Qin people, there is no China today, without the later "barbarian" Mongols and Manchus China would have broken into pieces like Europe today after Roman empire failed to further unite Europe. Without the successive dynasties (Han or Mongol or Manchu etc.) expansion in all directions (particularly southwards), Guizhou, Guanxi, Guangdong, Sichuan, Fujian, Zhejiang, Hunan (in the south) and Heilongjiang, Jilin in the north would not have been China. You think all the Han populations in these mentioned area are some kind of pure Han? Not a mixture of earlier settlers and later immigrants?

Just tell you one thing, many Manchus today are actually Han and Mongols at the beginning of 1910s, they were registered as Manchu ethnicity because they were in the banner (八旗汉军，八旗蒙古). In the mean time, many Manchus who were not serving in the banner choose to register as Han. Many people born of mixed background choose either ethnicity for various reasons, preferring Han before 1949 to avoid discrimination by neighbors, then switch to Manchu after 1949 for favorable education quota. They do so because they are mixed, one of my classmate did that being born to a Han and Manchu mix. Many Han people today were Khitan (totally since 1300s), Xianbei (totally since 600s) or Turks (partially after Tang), Manchus (since 1910s). In the south, it is the same.

Today, we are all Han people, but we are all decedents of people of very different ancestries, and we maintained diverse culture elements from our different heritage. Calling homogeneous in the same sense as Japan is denying our diversity, is denying significant part of our own heritages. The one thing of being a Han Chinese is to enjoy, being proud and being curious of each other's difference, not to reject it. I suggest you live in mainland China for some years, or travel around the country to get a good feeling of what Chinese (Han) really is.

Give you a very simple (but may not be accurate analogue), a mandarin speaker from Beijing can understand almost nothing of what a native speaker of Guangdong or Shanghai. So much less than that an Italian can understand a Spanish, or a Swedish understanding Danish, a Dutch understanding German. If Han is regarded as homogeneous, there is no other people can be regarded as divergent.

I once worked in Fujian for a month, I could not understand a single word of the local dialect. I could not but have to eat the food, but really rather eat food of Manchu or Muslim because they are closer to the northern Han. Once when in Europe, my college brought me to a Chinese restaurant, I have to ask my (European) collogues to translate between me and the Han Chinese waiter in European language because he did not speak mandarin, that is how much homogeneous the Han is. And there is a big laugh among us afterwards.

I'd say a key difference between the Chinese and the Japanese is how they approach things. Chinese value efficiency and often view things through the perspective of being worthwhile in a cost/benefit analysis. The Japan care more about precision and will practice something over and over again in order to achieve perfection. This is why Japan are so good at design and craftmanship but tend to lack the foresight or business acumen of the Chinese.

CPC members, officials in E. China asked to take the lead in promoting Chinese-style weddings

CPC members and officials in Changshan County, Zhejiang, have been called on to take the lead in promoting Chinese-style , including adding more traditional cultural songs from the county, according to a recent guideline.

Changshan News reported that local Party members and officials should pledge to follow the eight-point guideline in social practice for wedding and funerals, including a ban on expensive wedding gifts and luxury car fleets, and encourages them to host Chinese-style weddings at local cultural venues. Local traditional cultural practices, such as Changshan folk singing, are also encouraged.

Changshan folk singing is reportedly an important part of Changshan culture, which is often done at celebrations. The folk songs are also a national intangible cultural heritage.

The guideline also bans birthday parties for local Party members and officials under 60, and forbids any kind of superstition practices at funerals. The guideline also suggests mourning with flowers instead of paper money and firecrackers.

China has been promoting simple and easy weddings and funerals among CPC members and officials as part of its anti-graft campaign, as the two necessary life events have become ripe with bribery and corruption.
(file pics)

Now that China is richer and more self confidence there is renew interest in traditional wedding complete with sedan, horse riding bridegroom to pick up the bride. We still practice this except there is no horse in urban setting But the ceremony still the same. And no red color costume, our favorite color is turquoise and violet
Here is the video


Bride carried in sedan chair


bride groom rode a horse to pickup the bride


promise to honor and love each other


give respect to the parents,elder family, ancestor

I've really like this girl Li Ziqi's work. She makes artistic videos about village daily life in China making traditional food, clothes and even carpentry. Here's her making woodblock Chinese characters for printing.

The wedding costume in photo above is not authentic It is modern creation. Compare to the photo below which is authentic wedding costume of the period(made in China and imported to SEA). You see the difference it is much finer more detail. but it is a start and should be applauded . In due time they with create reproduction that is close to the real thing. In Singapore and Malaysia there are company that rent those costume,paraphernalia and mentor the wedding ceremony and etiquette. It is very popular and has long waiting time

Hendrik_2000 said:

The wedding costume in photo above is not authentic It is modern creation. Compare to the photo below which is authentic wedding costume of the period(made in China and imported to SEA). You see the difference it is much finer more detail. but it is a start and should be applauded . In due time they with create reproduction that is close to the real thing. In Singapore and Malaysia there are company that rent those costume,paraphernalia and mentor the wedding ceremony and etiquette. It is very popular and has long waiting time

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While "authenticity" in the props or processes is nice and valuable in its own right the more important thing is keeping the thinking behind it, the beliefs and value system etc, alive which is what gives the whole thing meaning regardless of how the props or processes are. We've discussed this here before regarding culture being a living evolving thing.

Hendrik_2000 said:

The wedding costume in photo above is not authentic It is modern creation. Compare to the photo below which is authentic wedding costume of the period(made in China and imported to SEA). You see the difference it is much finer more detail. but it is a start and should be applauded . In due time they with create reproduction that is close to the real thing. In Singapore and Malaysia there are company that rent those costume,paraphernalia and mentor the wedding ceremony and etiquette. It is very popular and has long waiting time

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I think it's possible that both are correct (except the above are made of low quality materials), since they are modeled after different time periods. The costumes below are typical of the southern tradition and originate in the Ming and Qing, while those above are probably modeled after what can be recreated of the Han and Tang.

Evolution of Chinese wedding dresses:

Hendrik_2000 said:

The wedding costume in photo above is not authentic It is modern creation. Compare to the photo below which is authentic wedding costume of the period(made in China and imported to SEA). You see the difference it is much finer more detail. but it is a start and should be applauded . In due time they with create reproduction that is close to the real thing. In Singapore and Malaysia there are company that rent those costume,paraphernalia and mentor the wedding ceremony and etiquette. It is very popular and has long waiting time

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The one on the bottom is based on the Qing era, especially the man's dress is typical Manchu (not Han), while the woman's dress is a development from Ming era. They are authentic to Qing era..

The top one is a modern recreation of two eras. The man's dress closely resembles the Peking opera dress, but is close to the Song and Ming dynasty' court dress. The woman's dress is very close to Tang dynasty.

Now, after saying all the above, which one is more "real"? The one closer to Qing era, or the one closer to Tang and Song era? Which is more authentic? P.S. I thought you did not really consider Manchu dress as true Chinese, or did I mistake you?

I think we are back to the most contested point, that culture evolves, people change, nothing is more authentic than the other, nobody is more real representative of a culture identity than others. Tang's dress was a new creation different from Han dynasty, yet it is as authentic as Han to be Chinese, so is any later creations.

Icmer said:

I think it's possible that both are correct (except the above are made of low quality materials), since they are modeled after different time periods. The costumes below are typical of the southern tradition and originate in the Ming and Qing, while those above are probably modeled after what can be recreated of the Han and Tang.

Evolution of Chinese wedding dresses:

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Click to expand...

Agreed with the rest. Comment to the bold test, it is pretty much the same style in the north as well.