Chinese submarines thread

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cooker

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just notice the 2 yuan SSK are completely different. my guess is one Yuan is fitted with AIP.
note the lines of snorkel holes on the hull.
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note clean surface with no holes (AIP??)
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crobato

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just notice the 2 yuan SSK are completely different. my guess is one Yuan is fitted with AIP.
note the lines of snorkel holes on the hull.
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note clean surface with no holes (AIP??)
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No its the same ship. There is no such thing as snorkel lines inth e hull. Those are sink or limber holes. In one of the pictures they were deleted to pass censor requests, though in later pictures, such requests are no longer given.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
That's not really correct. For the most part of the war, they didn't have any snorkels. Until finally late in the war they started to have snorkels.

At that time they were also running on designs that spent more time at the water than under it. The major revolution began with the Type XXIII and XXI subs, as these were the first ever subs in the world that can spend more time underwater than on top. While the Type XXI was never went into combat, the Type XXIII did and none of them were ever sunk in combat.

Incorrect; U-2338 was sunk by British aircraft May 4, 1945, and U-2351 was judged to be too badly damaged by bombs and was paid off.

Of the snorkel equipped U-boats, many were sunk by the enemy. Of note is U-543, which was fitted with a Schnorchel in February 1944, but was sunk that April 1944 by depth charges & a homing torpedo from Avenger aircraft (VC-58) of the US escort carrier USS Wake Island. U-984 was also fitted in March 1944, but was sunk that August 1944 by depth charge attack from destroyers.
 

crobato

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The two U-Boats you mentioned never went into operational patrols, and the six who did, none of them were sunk by the enemy.
 

crobato

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New Yuan ready to go to the water soon.

Well actually there are two Yuans in this picture, and a freebie display of its snorket.
 

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tphuang

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New Yuan ready to go to the water soon.

Well actually there are two Yuans in this picture, and a freebie display of its snorket.

Yeah, I just saw this picture too. With only one problem, this doesn't look like a Yuan to me. The hump looks different. If this is really from Wuhan as they claim, I think we are seeing a new variant.

lol, CD just added legitimacy to my claims by deleting the threads with its pictures. The other forums still have their threads though.
 
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crobato

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Yeah, I just saw this picture too. With only one problem, this doesn't look like a Yuan to me. The hump looks different. If this is really from Wuhan as they claim, I think we are seeing a new variant.

lol, CD just added legitimacy to my claims by deleting the threads with its pictures. The other forums still have their threads though.

The way I see it the ridge on the upper hull near the bow of the original Yuan has a form that seems shaped like a triangle. In these pictures, the ridge now unites to form a knife like edge. It seems that this might be more smoother hydrodynamically. I sure would like to see clear pictures to verify if there are any changes in the limber hole patterns along the side and to see if there is any flaring at the base of the sail.

The Yuan roots are clear, but there may be changes to the outer hydrodynamic hull shape.

***


In order to enlighten what is happening to our less informed members, we have to begin how a sub is constructed. Chinese subs, much like Russian and some other nation subs, are double hulled. That means there is an outer hull that shapes the hydrodynamics of the sub, and an inner pressure hull that contains all the people and the stuff within. The pressure hull is the toughest part of the sub and that's where the real strength and structure is, while the outer hull is like thin shell.

Even though the Song and the Yuan don't look much alike, I suspect both share the same inner pressure hull, and what makes them look different is the outer hull. This is perhaps the reason why they share the same designation with only the letter changed.

Because the outer hull is thinner, it is relatively easier to reshape. The reason why US subs are so expensive is because they are single hulled, meaning both pressure and hydrodynamic hull are the same and one. This statement does not sound intuitive, since it is assumed, one hull is cheaper to build than two, labor wise and material wise. But the problem is that it is much more difficult to bend and reshape thick hard pressure plate and this is a very daunting, and quite impressive use of machine tooling to accomplish this. Its truly a mighty feat of construction engineering but it is also very expensive as a result.

Because double hull design has a sense of modularity in the sense of the separation between inner pressure and outer shape hull, it is possible for the 039 family to evolve its outer shape while retaining the pressure hull.

In a way I sense the same thing for the 093 and 094, that the exterior hulls can be relatively modified quickly to allow them to experiment with new variants.
 

tphuang

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The way I see it the ridge on the upper hull near the bow of the original Yuan has a form that seems shaped like a triangle. In these pictures, the ridge now unites to form a knife like edge. It seems that this might be more smoother hydrodynamically. I sure would like to see clear pictures to verify if there are any changes in the limber hole patterns along the side and to see if there is any flaring at the base of the sail.

The Yuan roots are clear, but there may be changes to the outer hydrodynamic hull shape.

***


In order to enlighten what is happening to our less informed members, we have to begin how a sub is constructed. Chinese subs, much like Russian and some other nation subs, are double hulled. That means there is an outer hull that shapes the hydrodynamics of the sub, and an inner pressure hull that contains all the people and the stuff within. The pressure hull is the toughest part of the sub and that's where the real strength and structure is, while the outer hull is like thin shell.

Even though the Song and the Yuan don't look much alike, I suspect both share the same inner pressure hull, and what makes them look different is the outer hull. This is perhaps the reason why they share the same designation with only the letter changed.

Because the outer hull is thinner, it is relatively easier to reshape. The reason why US subs are so expensive is because they are single hulled, meaning both pressure and hydrodynamic hull are the same and one. This statement does not sound intuitive, since it is assumed, one hull is cheaper to build than two, labor wise and material wise. But the problem is that it is much more difficult to bend and reshape thick hard pressure plate and this is a very daunting, and quite impressive use of machine tooling to accomplish this. Its truly a mighty feat of construction engineering but it is also very expensive as a result.

Because double hull design has a sense of modularity in the sense of the separation between inner pressure and outer shape hull, it is possible for the 039 family to evolve its outer shape while retaining the pressure hull.

In a way I sense the same thing for the 093 and 094, that the exterior hulls can be relatively modified quickly to allow them to experiment with new variants.
That's exactly what I was thinking, "It seems that this might be more smoother hydrodynamically". I just sent the picture to Gary on DT for some analysis. Yeah, I'm think this is just an improvement over Yuan also. According to the people on Chinese bbs, this is supposed to be larger, wider and has more power.
 

Scratch

Captain
Even though the Song and the Yuan don't look much alike, I suspect both share the same inner pressure hull, and what makes them look different is the outer hull. This is perhaps the reason why they share the same designation with only the letter changed.

Because double hull design has a sense of modularity in the sense of the separation between inner pressure and outer shape hull, it is possible for the 039 family to evolve its outer shape while retaining the pressure hull.

While things like batteries etc can be stored outside the pressure hull, I guess a potential AIP system can not. Wouldn't the addition of such reqiure a redesigne of the pressure hull, or can it just be put into the existing construction?
Similar thing with 093 <-> 094 to me; don't those big SLBM silos also influence the presssure hull?
 

crobato

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While things like batteries etc can be stored outside the pressure hull, I guess a potential AIP system can not. Wouldn't the addition of such reqiure a redesigne of the pressure hull, or can it just be put into the existing construction?
Similar thing with 093 <-> 094 to me; don't those big SLBM silos also influence the presssure hull?

For AIP you need to build it inside the pressure hull, and the best way to increase its volume is to lengthen it. Which is rather easy.

Suffice to say, in a double hull setup, the lengthened pressure hull does not need complicated bending to form into a hydrodynamic shape, which relaxes on the machine tooling requirements. Also with an AIP setup, you delete half of your engines and their fuel volume, in exchange for the AIP and its supply. One has to remember because AIP subs have less than half of the diesel engines a standard diesel electric submarine has, its only half as fast on the surface.

Likewise, for the 094 conversion from an 093, you need to extend the pressure hull for the missile compartment with the silos.
 
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