Chinese submarines thread

[Finn McCool]

Re: Chinese sub thread

What happened to reports of the 095 class being developed? Its an attack submarine, apparently distinct from the 093 which probably was a testbed (because that seems to be the pattern of Chinese sub development). Of course this could be wrong if nothing more has been written about the 095. However I would like to know what happened to this rumour.

By the way I feel pretty certain the PLAN has a working 094 right now.

 

[fishhead]

Re: Chinese sub thread

This model is very interesting, it's from the PLA Navy College.

It's the same style model as the 24 tube one, gold coated. Clearly it's 094.

 

[Colt .45]

Re: New Chinese Ballistic Missile Sub Detected

I thought that this was found to be an 092.

It was found out that is was a 092. :coffee:

 

[tphuang]

Re: Chinese sub thread

What happened to reports of the 095 class being developed? Its an attack submarine, apparently distinct from the 093 which probably was a testbed (because that seems to be the pattern of Chinese sub development). Of course this could be wrong if nothing more has been written about the 095. However I would like to know what happened to this rumour.

By the way I feel pretty certain the PLAN has a working 094 right now.

it's ongoing as I mentionned before,but you are not going to know more for a while I guess. 095 is probably going to come around 2015 by my estimation.

 

[Roger604]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Can we draw any conclusions about the hydrodynamics of this big hump design? It seems to be poor, leading to slow underwater speed and greater noise.

(Popeye?)

Ohio

Borei

Jin?

 

[fishhead]

Re: Chinese sub thread

That's right, the big hump doesn't look good and the design still lags behind USN. There are a few reasons:

1) The hull diameter, or the tonage of Chinese SSBN are too small, so you need a big hump. Especially for Xia class, the hump is ridiculous big even the missile range is less than 2k km, a very small missile. This reflects the lag in mechanical R&D capability - you need better steel for big hull, you need big pressurer to make the hull plate.

2) The simple shape of Xia hump means China hasn't solved the problem of super size NC machine tool - you need that kind of machine tool to make the big mold, so the complicated super size shape steel plate can be made by the pressurer, then you can talk about more smooth streamline.

3) The combat doctrine. A few years ago there was an interview with China's SSBN top designer. He talked about the difference between US and China SSBN. USNY is for ocean combat, so they need bigger tonage, better performance requirement. PLANY is still focus on costal area, even their SSBNs mainly operate in area covered by land-based air power, so the speed and noise requirment may not be their priority.

The above conclusion is only for 092 class, we can't draw any anything for 094 since we need to see the photo.

Some hint may come out from Yuan class, it reflects the level of technology

 

[Violet Oboe]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Yes you have an interesting point, fishhead about specialized large machinery tools since this kind of technological ´choke point´made things indeed difficult for China's sub engineers back in the 70's and 80's (...by the way France faced similar obstacles in the 60's).

Nevertheless more and more open sources are indicating that China has solved this kind of ´raw´machinery and tools problems since the late 90's. Today chinese sub yards are definitely better equipped than their russian counterparts and are approaching at least french and british standard although Groton/Electric Boat remains in the lead for now. :coffee:
(... but China's sub guys will have the resources quite soon to aim very high! )

 

[yehe]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Russian sub yards are quite advanced, no less advanced than their western counter part I will have to say.

 

[Violet Oboe]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Without doubt Severodvinsk is an excellent subyard and during the last few years certain investment in new equipment has been made but China is currently expanding and extending her entire shipbuilding industry (civilian and military) in a very dynamic full spectrum drive.

Several dozen bn $ will be poured into creating a naval infrastructure ´second to none´ in the coming five years and probably even more since China can indeed afford paying the bills. PBoC has currently a reserve of 1.33 trn $ and is adding 1.5 bn $ a day to her treasury so China currently needs a short day of virtual financial transaction to earn one SSBN and this does not account for the equivalent day of hard physical work of the chinese people!

(...so I think underestimating the financial clout of the new dragon would be certainly unwise. )

 

[Roger604]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Nevertheless more and more open sources are indicating that China has solved this kind of ´raw´machinery and tools problems since the late 90's. Today chinese sub yards are definitely better equipped than their russian counterparts and are approaching at least french and british standard although Groton/Electric Boat remains in the lead for now. :coffee:
(... but China's sub guys will have the resources quite soon to aim very high! )

Late 90's, huh? Around 1999-2001 there was a big spike in reports that China had launched its "new Type 094" SSBN. For example:

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Could it be that around 2000 China launched an SSBN that was slightly improved from the Xia-class, but then decided not to serial produce this, given that ship-building technology had improved to the point where it could manufacture much more advanced submarine hulls?

If this is the case, then the real Jin-class should be quite a leap over one in these photos. If I had to guess, it probably resembles the Borei. Makes a lot more sense for China to show you something they already had for a long time than to show you something that just entered service.