Chinese submarines thread

[IDonT]

Re: Chinese sub thread

The processor may have the power of all other of the older ones combined, but will it have the detection range to cover the wider area due to the lesser vessels employed ?

Passive sonar does not have a "range" like active sonar or radar has. It listens to noise and since water is a better sound conductor than air, this noise can be heared thousands of miles away. Of course the magnitude (how loud) the noise is has a direct correlation.

The processor screens the noise for natural marine life, current and waves, civilian traffic, etc leaving only what you are looking for.

According to the link it says that:

By sharply upgrading ship sensor processing, it integrates and improves the boat's towed array, hull array and sphere array sonars, running more advanced algorithms and providing a fuller "picture" of the surrounding environment. Sometimes, it really is all about what you can do with it.

 

[Violet Oboe]

Re: Chinese sub thread

The production of Yuan type SSK seems to have accelerated recently and there have been rumours that a second yard joined the line after Wuhan (Shanghai Jiangnan?).

How many Yuan may have been built already? Some pics posted here in the recent weeks can be interpreted in the way that four units are commissioned and a further pair is nearing completion or is on trials. (Remember that the first unit was launched on 31.5.04 at Wuhan already 30 months ago!) Also the question remains whether type 039G (imp. Song) will be built simultaneously with the Yuan in the coming years or that type 041 (039A ?) will supplant the former entirely. Additionally there is the AIP mystery with murky indications that a Yuan unit is used for trials but that the full blown AIP system will be integrated eventually in a completely new SSK type emerging in the next few years.

What is even the correct chinese type designation? Some people are talking about type 041 (KANWA introduced this probably) but others are convinced that type 039A is the correct designation. What is your opinion guys?

Best regards Violet Oboe.

 

[Finn McCool]

Re: Type 095?

combined these two threads, you can find the stuff I posted on 095 SSN last page or a few pages back. They've definitely started producing components on 095 already.

I haven't been keeping up on this thread so I haven't heard of the 095 before. Of course, that it is a big development. The main thing that you can tell from it is that the 093 was either a sort of test-bed and practice run on building an SSN or it was unsatisfactory because there is a whole new class of SSNs coming out. Is it possible that the 095 is an SSGN?

 

[tphuang]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Hrmmph....or Is that Im simply fed up with people shouting things as heavenly facts when they are talking about assumptions made basing on suscpicious facts found on these almoust myhtical -oh, so always so rigth- chinese language military forums.

I see one link that mentions this oddity 09V....offcourse if you want to believe that it has to mean 095 and adding another odd sentence that could inturperated in many possiple way, means that its a nuclear powered submarine in question...then you belive it.

Again, I in otherhand ask, do chinese use generally a arabic/roman mix of numbers to report a same number?? Couse whitout that sort of practice, you cannot really claim that it means 095...it could mean simply 09 and V model of it

I have learned a thing called source-critisism and basics of scientific thinking that urges one to always suspect and doupt what he hear, sees or reads....I have been several occasions proven to be wrong a thing sadly only few of us can admitt, but you in other advocate blindly believing into something that clealry is what you want it to be...
I have always thougth that as self-foolery but if you are OK whit it, then im fine with it too

and your mentioned incident I said that a thing under green canavas can be anything, And I didnt jump into conclusion that it was a type 730 before I saw it there clearly
...Funny you mentioned that 054 thread...Thpuang posted a pic of 054A model with seccond VLS in the rear of the funnel...a pic which was posted in the same thread earlier with out any PS work...now did we see your vigilance of spotting little mistakes there? Or is it that only when the claims are of those which you don't want to hear you try to proove them being wrong but when they are exactly what you wish to hear, you will swallow just about anything??

It's all comes down to sentence, "I want to believe"....well, I dont, I want to know instead

yeah, actually it's kind of weird with nuclear submarine in PLAN. I've seen 091 written as 09I, 092 written as 09II, 093 as 09III and 094 as 09IV. Actually, Kanwa seemed to have done that. And huitong uses something like that,

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I honestly haven't seen them done this with anything else in PLAN.

" The latest rumor claimed that a new design (Type 095/09V) is under development, suggesting that Type 093 may not be advanced enough to fully meet PLAN's requirement. "

Does any one know how the Augusta Class subs stack against Chinese Subs and what lessons can Chinese Navy learn from four Pakistani Subs that were recently commissioned

According to gf0021-aust, Augusta 90B have lower accoustic signature. Not sure what China can learn, because China already uses French sonar and control system on its modern SSKs.

To Violet Oboe, Chinese regard Yuan as a variant of Song, rather than a different class, so 039A is the designation. I doubt Yuan is the generation leap that everyone thinks it is. I think the Song class subs are slowly improving with each new one launched. Yuan may represent a larger improvement, but that's it. I'd like to know how many Yuans are there though.

I haven't been keeping up on this thread so I haven't heard of the 095 before. Of course, that it is a big development. The main thing that you can tell from it is that the 093 was either a sort of test-bed and practice run on building an SSN or it was unsatisfactory because there is a whole new class of SSNs coming out. Is it possible that the 095 is an SSGN?

I believe that 093 is too far behind the technology level of Virginia and Sea Wolf. That's why China is forced to work on 095 right now.

 

[Schumacher]

Re: Chinese sub thread

What do u guys think of this article ? It's rare to see news abt subs in mainstream non-defence newspaper like this.

Various info in there, main ones are that 2 Shang class have been launched. It has noise level of 98.9 dB.

While the new 093 has a PW2 reactor, max depth 450m, displacement 7800 tons, noise level 96.2 dB.

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「商」級核潛艇部署南海基地

圖：094型（左）、093型（右）核潛艇電腦繪圖（網上圖片）

【大公報訊】中央社引述內地軍事網站消息稱，兩艘新型「商」級(Shang class)核動力戰略潛艇已建造完畢，第一艘並完成水下發射試驗，暫時部署在新建的南海基地。

據報道，「商」級潛艇配備巨浪二型潛射長程導彈，採用固體燃料，有12個發射孔，每枚導彈最大搭載10萬噸級彈頭6至8枚，通常搭載6枚配上4枚模擬誘導彈頭，實際載彈量72枚彈頭，相當於早期「夏」級戰略核潛艇的3倍。

「夏」級為單枚單井發射，間隔時間約一分鐘，而「商」級採用密閉循環發射，發射間歇時間縮短到10秒，如果需要，2分鐘內可以發射完畢全部12枚導彈，再快速進入深海躲避。「夏」級往往要需要15分鐘或者更長時間才能完成這些動作。

「商」級還有四個魚雷發射形式的潛射巡航導彈發射裝置，一次可以搭載8枚「潛射型HN2或者C602」巡航導彈。

「商」級潛艇採用了DL3型指揮控制中心，類似美國加利福尼亞級的「綜合指揮作戰控制平台」，配置聲納戰基站、GPS深水操控接受中心、反聲納魚雷對抗作戰室、戰術指揮中心、LCD大熒幕作戰研究室、綜合艦艇操作聯絡中心、中央電腦控制中心等。

而在消音消磁方面，「商」級採用密閉雙回路循環冷卻系統的第二代核子反應爐，替代老式的單路冷卻，使水聲系數由105分貝降到98.9分貝，僅次於美國海狼級核攻擊潛艇。

093型專司巡航導彈攻擊

此外，「商」級最大下潛深度420米，最大水下滿載排水量12125噸，人員135名，水下最大航速27.2節。

據指出，目前「商」級已建造兩艘，第二艘將於明年進行水下發射試驗。

至於新建的093核動力攻擊潛艇，則是參考俄羅斯「阿庫拉」級技術、法國紅寶石級外觀而研製的巡航導彈攻擊核潛艇，而不僅僅是094戰略核潛艇的導彈去除版。

093在設計之初，定位為魚雷反艦導彈攻擊核潛艇，但後期中國具備巡航導彈技術，隨即進行改進修正，將093定位為巡航導彈攻擊核潛艇，也因此093的裝備與製造略晚於094「商」級核動力戰略導彈潛艇。

093採用聯合勤務作戰管理AOD系統，可與094進行深海數據交換，也可與航太系統無縫接入，實現全無線雷達靜默和外界引導無聲攻擊。

093有一座PW2級壓水式反應爐、一台蒸汽汽輪機，最大深海水聲系數96.2分貝，比美國海狼級的95分貝差1.2分貝，最大下潛深度450米，水下最大排水量7800噸，人員95人。

093的武器配備包括：前部魚雷為上二下四，兩座650厘米超大魚雷管道，可以發射類似SSN--15、16的戰術巡航導彈。4座533厘米魚雷管道，可發射C602反艦導彈或魚雷。

全艦一般配屬的話，可發射12枚C602/C803A反艦導彈，8枚紅鳥三型(HN3)垂直發射巡航導彈，24枚制導魚雷。

如作為巡航導彈核潛艇，可以配屬18枚HN3巡航導彈、4枚803A導彈、20枚魚雷。

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[Gollevainen]

Re: Chinese sub thread

yeah, actually it's kind of weird with nuclear submarine in PLAN. I've seen 091 written as 09I, 092 written as 09II, 093 as 09III and 094 as 09IV. Actually, Kanwa seemed to have done that. And huitong uses something like that,

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I honestly haven't seen them done this with anything else in PLAN.

thank you, thats all I needed to hear Sorry that Im beeing bitchy about these, but like I said in the previous post...

But then as the source credipility proplem is solved, Could we thorw out suggestion that 093 isent going to appear at all? Or that its absence is due that its going under trials and the trials havent been that succesfull and perhaps only one boat migth enter the fleet after years of modernisation and improvings in similar schedule as the 091 once did....

 

[Chengdu J-10]

Re: Chinese sub thread

thank you, thats all I needed to hear Sorry that Im beeing bitchy about these, but like I said in the previous post...

But then as the source credipility proplem is solved, Could we thorw out suggestion that 093 isent going to appear at all? Or that its absence is due that its going under trials and the trials havent been that succesfull and perhaps only one boat migth enter the fleet after years of modernisation and improvings in similar schedule as the 091 once did....

But there are 5 Type 091 SSN in the PLAN

 

[tphuang]

Re: Chinese sub thread

thank you, thats all I needed to hear Sorry that Im beeing bitchy about these, but like I said in the previous post...

But then as the source credipility proplem is solved, Could we thorw out suggestion that 093 isent going to appear at all? Or that its absence is due that its going under trials and the trials havent been that succesfull and perhaps only one boat migth enter the fleet after years of modernisation and improvings in similar schedule as the 091 once did....

That's alright, I was confused about the roman numerals too. No idea what's going to happen with 093. I suspect we won't know exactly what the status of 093 is for a few more years.

 

[netspider]

Re: Chinese sub thread

who knows, a lot of articles we have seen are just copies of old articles which are all full of rumors and speculations. Anyone here remember when did China revealed (officially) its 091/092 program?

That's alright, I was confused about the roman numerals too. No idea what's going to happen with 093. I suspect we won't know exactly what the status of 093 is for a few more years.

 

[Gollevainen]

Re: Chinese sub thread

But there are 5 Type 091 SSN in the PLAN

yeah, first commisioned in 1970, the last in 1990
and the lead boat didnt enter to full operationality until 80's....