Chinese submarines thread

[IDonT]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Since the subs are launching relatively long range missiles, they don't have to be position close to one another. Besides the tactics of mass sub attack were used in WW 2 with good success by the German navy. :coffee:

Mig, I understand what you are saying, but the subs still need to get into position to defend the fleet.

In WWII, Sub vs Sub battles were very rare. The German identified their targets via visual means. In these battles, the German U-boat skipper is assured that all underwater sonar contacts were friendly. Today however, things are very differrent. The USN policy has always been that the best way to destroy a sub is with another sub.

As for coordinating long range missiles from submarines, you have to ensure you have very good communications with them. Highly problematic, even for the USN. USN subs usually operate alone because of this.

 

[tphuang]

Re: Chinese sub thread

okay, i'm going to stay away from the American strategies on defeating the Chinese subs, since I'm sure they have plenty stored up. Just commenting on 093, I'm not refuting that the design is based on Victor III or that it got a lot of help from Rubin to do it that way. But, modern noise reduction techniques and electronics and torpedoes and cruise missiles can be put on 093 that will make it better than Victor III back in its days.

 

[Mr_C]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Face it MIGleader the subs would be detecded. Eventually. If a P-3 did not find them. An Arliegh Burke would. Still can't find them? How about and LA class or a Tico or two? And don't forget SH-60 variants flying around looking for subs. Will something slip through? Maybe,.. but I would not want to be on that crew of that sub because if it goes undected, slips through and fires any weapons..well it's dead. Period.

Hey bd popeye, just pretend that u r a desiel sub captain and u get close enough to ur enemy undetected... u let lose ur weapons etc... how do u think a desiel sub get escape or survive afterwards. What do u think would be a tactic for survival in such a situation?

 

[IDonT]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Hey bd popeye, just pretend that u r a desiel sub captain and u get close enough to ur enemy undetected... u let lose ur weapons etc... how do u think a desiel sub get escape or survive afterwards. What do u think would be a tactic for survival in such a situation?

Let me try a stab at this....

Assuming I am a captain of a Kilo SSK, the moment I fire my torpedoes, I am detected by the enemy. The next course of action is to dive deep and run silent. At this point, the enemy will saturate the area with sonobouys and helo dipping sonar. Some of this will emmit active sonar. In order to avoid detection, I would have hide across different salinisation (sp) and temperature layers of the ocean. These layers can masked my noised signiture as well as bounced back active sonar. Then set a course out of the area, at maximum quite speed (5 knots), before the battery runs out.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Re: Chinese sub thread

These threads seem to keep experiencing deja vu all over again.

Like before, no answer to the fact that the British Royal Navy in war games, with I believe it was the Norwegians, had to be cancelled because one SSK was sinking the Royal Navy and all their advanced ASW technology and tactics. As a result, the US is leasing one of their SSKs for training. So apparently the US Navy is not fully up-to-date on the latest tactics.

Why all the fuss over China's military buildup if with all its inferior technology and tactics can be beaten so easily?

Which brings another point brought up once again... war, if and when it happens, won't be fought in the next couple of minutes. So today ain't tomorrow!

 

[bd popeye]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Let me try a stab at this....

Assuming I am a captain of a Kilo SSK, the moment I fire my torpedoes, I am detected by the enemy. The next course of action is to dive deep and run silent. At this point, the enemy will saturate the area with sonobouys and helo dipping sonar. Some of this will emmit active sonar. In order to avoid detection, I would have hide across different salinisation (sp) and temperature layers of the ocean. These layers can masked my noised signiture as well as bounced back active sonar. Then set a course out of the area, at maximum quite speed (5 knots), before the battery runs out.

IDon't hit the nail on the head. You would have to "Run silent and run deep" to avoid detection. You would have to stay submerged as long and deep as possible to have any chance of survial. Your crew had be better be mentally prepared for such a task and realize there chance of surviving is small. If they survive and surface they will have to run a guantlet to get to friendly waters. And if the do get to there homeport the port it will more than likely be blown to smitherenes. Fact.

 

[tphuang]

Re: Chinese sub thread

IDon't hit the nail on the head. You would have to "Run silent and run deep" to avoid detection. You would have to stay submerged as long and deep as possible to have any chance of survial. Your crew had be better be mentally prepared for such a task and realize there chance of surviving is small. If they survive and surface they will have to run a guantlet to get to friendly waters. And if the do get to there homeport the port will more than likely be blown to smitherenes. Fact.

I think in the events that the submarine is facing such overwhelmingly strong opposition, the crew would know its in a kamikaze mission before they went in. Besides, their chance of survival will still probably be slightly better than that of the surface ships.

 

[bd popeye]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Before this thread "sinks" into that old subject..How do you sink a USN CVN?
Let's move on with a discussion about the PLAN sub force shall we? OK!!

I know what kind of training the USN gives their sub sailors. . Enlisted sub sailors get 6 weeks or more(up to 6 months) of speicalized training before being assigned to a submarine. This link will tell you all about it.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Ok so now somebody post the PLAN sub school link.....I'm waiting..:coffee:

Honestly I'm skeptical of any service that uses conscripts for their main force. Not because of the quality of the conscript but the amount of time they spend in service. Usally 2 years. Too little time. You can't possibly train anyone on modern day hi-tech equipmnet in such a short period of time. My son is a sonar tech(surface). He spent 20 months in school learning his feild as part of his USN training. Does anyone in this forum have any first hand knowledge about how the PLAN trains it's sub sailors? How many of the sub sailors are carreer professionals? I would love to know.

 

[tphuang]

Re: Chinese sub thread

actually popeye, I know very little about sonar, and would like to know more. Do you know where I can read up on this? I read stuff like hull mounted sonar, variable depth sonar and towed array sonar, but have no idea what each actually does.

 

[IDonT]

Re: Chinese sub thread

actually popeye, I know very little about sonar, and would like to know more. Do you know where I can read up on this? I read stuff like hull mounted sonar, variable depth sonar and towed array sonar, but have no idea what each actually does.

Here is a very basic info about sonar.

Hull mounted sonar are mounted on the hull of a ship, near the front. It looks like a huge bulge in its front when the ship is in dry dock.
Bow mounted sonar are like hull mounted but mounted in the front end of the submarine. The reason why they are on the front is that it is the farthest part from the propeller, the noisiest part of the ship.

Both of these sonar can hear in all directions except to the areas where the ship/sub is blocking it, it is usually in the rear or baffles. To compensate for this, the towed array sonar is developed.

Towed Array sonar is sonar that is towed behind the ship. These could be several miles long and they cover the rear quarter of the ship/sub. Also since there is less noise from the host ship, these are more effective at hearing than the bow/hull mounted sonar. Its main weakness is that it takes a while to deploy and retract. If there is a hostile sub nearby, your mobility is compromised.

Dipping sonars are used by helicopters and are literally dipped into the water at prescribe depth. As I have written earlier, different water temperatures and salinity can block and mask certain sounds that sonar on a different layer will not hear. Dipping sonars can go down and penetrate these layers so you can hear better. Submarines can also do this by moving between layers.

Sonobouys are disposable "sonar" carried by aircraft such as the P-3. They float in the surface transmit their data to the aircraft. Theyc ome in both active and passive modes, as all other forms of sonar-except for the towed array.