Chinese submarines thread

[darth sidious]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Gollevainen

knid of boudt that missile in the sinodefence page is the real YJ-62 for one it does not appear to fit the size of the lunch continers on the 052c more likely some cruise missile

also it does not make sense for the chinese to put a sobsonic missile on their newest destoryer as they already made supersonic one

the new missiles mostly likely target is ageis equipeted warships of the japanese or american navy in both case a supersonic missile is required

china can also buy the russian yakhont like india if it can not built one (yakhont was offered for sell in late 90s)

END NOTE we reely dont know jack about it all rumor and no evidance

 

[MIGleader]

Re: Chinese sub thread

actually sidious, those containers are much larger than they appear. compared with the old bow launchers, they are big. thats why theres only 8 missles insteal of 16. perhaps the chinese decided to build a subsonic missle for more distance, but thats makes not ssense. the yj-83 only goes mach 1.5 in the terminal phase of flight, about 15 km from the ship, just as it breaks the horizon. i dont see why the yj-62 could not do the same. perhaps its to give the missle more distinguishing time, or the missle can perform evasive manuvers, thus not needing speed so much.

is the yakhont on the em sovs? it said the em's had improved mokits, and the yakont is an improved moskit.

 

[Gollevainen]

Re: Chinese sub thread

knid of boudt that missile in the sinodefence page is the real YJ-62 for one it does not appear to fit the size of the lunch continers on the 052c more likely some cruise missile

Well as Migleader said, it's hard to mach the size of the missiles and cannisters form just few seperate pictures.

also it does not make sense for the chinese to put a sobsonic missile on their newest destoryer as they already made supersonic one

I said already explained myself on this matter. Why hasen't americans and french came up with supersonic ASMs? Becouse it's not the only way to do things.

the new missiles mostly likely target is ageis equipeted warships of the japanese or american navy in both case a supersonic missile is required

Form all that is given away of that missile, it seems to me that the main idea is to get missile with land attack ability to the sea...

END NOTE we reely dont know jack about it all rumor and no evidance

...what i have been saying all along....

 

[maddogy4645]

Re: Chinese sub thread

I agree with darth sidious. PLAN isn't just your average navy, it has to face the mighty USN. PLAN is currently using C-803's as the standard self-defence missile. Which should be an indicator that at least PLAN thinks that the new missile onboard 52C's is better at penetrating the Aegis defence than its predecessor. Recall that no one at the Pentagon ever made a big fuss about the Clubs,Urans, Exocets, or even Styx as been major threat to Aegis ships. I simply don't think that the Chinese has made significant enough breakthroughs in missile survivability to make a subsonic missile more effective than supersonic ones. Also, after the PLA has integrated techs from S300's, TorM1's, Shtils...I don't think that there's any doubt that the new missile would incorporate techs from Moskit and Clubs, thus it should retain the supersonic charactoristics yet improve on other facets. Plus, it doesn't make sense to have 2 types of subsonic anti-ship missiles, yet their range are not all that far apart, compared to the USN combo of Harpoon and Tomahawk.


"
I said already explained myself on this matter. Why hasen't americans and french came up with supersonic ASMs? Becouse it's not the only way to do things. "

Yes, that's correct, but the PLAN's situation is much more similar to what the Soviets had to face than what the USN had to face, thus PLAN should have at least develop 2 missiles: the C803 similar to Western designs and the new missiles similar to supersonic variants from Russia?

 

[darth sidious]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Gollevainen

the americans and the french dont hhave to battle a large cvbg protect by ageis ahips

the missile primary target will be ageis ships or carriers and for that task a supersonic missile is very effective as shown by the soviets

land attack is reely not the top pority right now as china have large numders of balistic missile and some air launched cruise missile the primary target of the new destoryers will by ships not land targets

most likely the missile will end up similar to the yakhont is perofomance as chiina already have some info on the missile

 

[slackpiv]

Re: Chinese sub thread

its obviouly is supersonic. looking at a missle is the worst way to judge its speed. it replced the yj-83, which was a supersonic missle. so do you think the chinese woul replace a faster missle with a slower one?

gain one cannot tell a missile is stealth by the way it "looks". the Chinese can easily put a coat of radar-absorbing paint to reduce RCS by 50%. or who knows, the skin of the missile could be made of graphite composite(like F-22) ...

Yes you can tell whether a missile is supersonic. Determining whether a missile is supersonic or not is compeletly different from determining the composition used on an aircraft (however experts can tell wether a tank incoporates DU armor or not based on the shape). explain to me how RAM would be able to reduce the RCS by 50 percent. Thats quite a figure considering China has limited or no experiance in stealth. Supersonic missiles always have sharp heads, huge boosters, and are sleek. The yj-62 has none of these qualities. And as some1 stated earlier, sources also state that the missile is subsonic. Why the chinese would replace a faster missile with a slower one? Because speed isn't everything in a missile as high powered processors aboard modern surface vessels have significantly increased. Land attack is vital for making a multi mission destroyer. This is something that the slava lacks as well as PLAN destroyers.

the missile primary target will be ageis ships or carriers and for that task a supersonic missile is very effective as shown by the soviets

When did the soviets show that they were very affective against the aegis. The aegis was in fact a response to the threat of a soviet supersonic missile saturation. (the old soviet capability at the height of their naval power far exceeds PLAN's current capability of launching a similar strike)

land attack is reely not the top pority right now as china have large numders of balistic missile and some air launched cruise missile the primary target of the new destoryers will by ships not land targets

Ballistic missiles are highly inaccurate. For the task of invading Taiwan (far more difficult than invading Iraq), being able to launch precision strikes is vital.

 

[MIGleader]

Re: Chinese sub thread

slackpiv, the moskit was released one year after the commision of the first ticonderoga. that shows the soviets built the family of missles to kill aegis, not vice versa. the speed and high g manuvers of the moskit and its developments could have been directed at mo other system. i must say, if the tartget ship of a moskit did not have aegis, it has a very high chance of getting mission killed.

again, looks are not everything. i could show you a yj-83, and a yj-82, which look virtually identical. yet one is supersonic, the other is not.

ram has been proven to reduce rcs by 50%, from many nations trials. unlike the rest of stealth, ram is fairly easy to develop, the stealthy equivalent of era. china probably has received russian aid in the development of ram

how is invading taiwan harder than invading iraq? i raq was on the other side of the world for america, while taiwian is 160 km awayfrom china.

 

[slackpiv]

Re: Chinese sub thread

No the moskit was in development before the aegis. Its mission function was not changed after the interduction of the Aegis. The Soviets had supersonices before the moksit. Yes the MOSKIT will not have trouble getting a hit on a vessel other than the US, such as a Russian or Indian destroyer. yes the yj-83 has a much larger booster and is only believe to be supersonic at the last stage of flight. First of all the US has much better power projection capability with the ability to use Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, and other countries during gulf war 1. The US did need an amphibious landing. Taiwan is an island. Iraq is almost completely landlocked. not to include Taiwan's defensive capability is much greater.

ram has been proven to reduce rcs by 50%

Show me proof that Chinese ram reduces RCS by 50 percent. Actually show me which fighters use actually actively are using ram.

 

[MIGleader]

Re: Chinese sub thread

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designed to kill aegis.btw, iraq is not landllocked. havnt you ever seen the clips of the wisconsin firing on iraq during the gulf war?

unfortunately, i do not have acess to classifed chinese information. you like many others, can make educated guesses, and instead are biased to the point that if information is not delivered to your doorstep, you will assume waht makes you feel better.

 

[darth sidious]

Re: Chinese sub thread

first of all the soviets dont have supersonic missile during the period when the ageis is developed

the moskit and the shipwrek is designed to destoryed the ageis not the other way around

slackpiv

care to provide us with a reliblely libled pic of the YJ-62?

the pic on sino defence first started from janes a highly unrelible source for info on the chinese military


provide evidance balistic missile is not accurate we are not talking about the scud the M-9 has a cep of 50 meters