Chinese semiconductor thread II

[tokenanalyst]

Are you sure? From what I remember ASML is still allowed to service those including the ones in SMIC 7nm.
IIRC, what was done in 2022 was ban US equipment and personnel from advanced fabs in China. So complete cut off from US companies. In accordance with that, ASML pulled their US personnel from China, but they continued their service using employees from other countries. That was the time Jordan Schneider did the famous "annihilation" tweet.
Then at the end of 2023 they were banned from exporting DUVi for advanced fabs, but were still allowed to service existing tools.
Towards the end of 2024 Dutch government introduced a licensing requirement to service, but as far as I know they haven't refused to give that license so far.

I think there was certain facilities of SMIC that ASML was not allow to service, there was even a hearing by the "Anti China" group complaining about facility by facility basis of the sanctions and that SMIC was using "tunnels" to servicing their tools.

Do you think Chinese local companies doing it? I believe so, as the 7nm production still going even higher

They may have learned to do it, have seem several independent companies offering servicing of ASML scanners, I have seem patents of companies like SMIC and other companies on servicing like cleaning the immersion heads and China overall supply chain is being made not only to supply parts and subsystems to SMEE but also to service and even hardware upgrade Nikon and ASML machines. Like UPrecision dual stages are made to be compatible to ASML ones, RSLaser excimer lasers are being made to compatible with Cymer lasers, Gouwang optical job statement says that their companies will not only supply optical sub-systems for SMEE but also give maintenance to existing machines.

 

[LanceD23]

you are senior member on this forum and knowledgeable too. even you know that, the Chinese internet is not the accurate source.

20KW laser output is likely to achieved by HUST now.. they have had working 10KW laser in mid 2023. officially announced by the institute and now Lithography seminar 2024. so this ''only several KW'' information is outdated.

CIOMP/Harbin and SIOMP all achieved sufficient laser output for first generation Chinese EUV machine.

View attachment 142463
CIOMP, LPP-EUV laser patent.. announced in 2024 but filled in 2022.

View attachment 142464

HIT delivered 13.5nm LPP-EUV light source for integration.. this happened months ago. they have won provincial prize as well.

Link -

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Hold on second.


HIT is using DPP EUV source, not LPP. 电等离子体极紫外光刻光源==DPP.

HIT is able to realize 40W EUV output . what's HUST CO2 laser has to do with HIT? why are they in same conversation??

and who is using HUST CO2 laser for EUV? For sure its not HIT. maybe sicarrier from huawei

 

[LanceD23]

I think there was certain facilities of SMIC that ASML was not allow to service, there was even a hearing by the "Anti China" group complaining about facility by facility basis of the sanctions and that SMIC was using "tunnels" to servicing their tools.


They may have learned to do it, have seem several independent companies offering servicing of ASML scanners, I have seem patents of companies like SMIC and other companies on servicing like cleaning the immersion heads and China overall supply chain is being made not only to supply parts and subsystems to SMEE but also to service and even hardware upgrade Nikon and ASML machines. Like UPrecision dual stages are made to be compatible to ASML ones, RSLaser excimer lasers are being made to compatible with Cymer lasers, Gouwang optical job statement says that their companies will not only supply optical sub-systems for SMEE but also give maintenance to existing machines.
View attachment 143156
View attachment 143154
View attachment 143155
View attachment 143157

Nice, RSLaser showing that ArFi laser source in that picture.

Does RSLaser has plan for high powered CO2 laser for EUV? Is it working with HUST to realize that?

 

[tokenanalyst]

Hold on second.


HIT is using DPP EUV source, not LPP. 电等离子体极紫外光刻光源==DPP.

HIT is able to realize 40W EUV output . what's HUST CO2 laser has to do with HIT? why are they in same conversation??

and who is using HUST CO2 laser for EUV? For sure its not HIT. maybe sicarrier from huawei

The DPP light source is 150 or 200W.

 

[tokenanalyst]

Nice, RSLaser showing that ArFi laser source in that picture.

Does RSLaser has plan for high powered CO2 laser for EUV? Is it working with HUST to realize that?

I don't know, I think the LPP CO2 laser will be supplied by the equivalent of TRUMPF in China, HGLASER or other company.

 

[huemens]

Biden's new AI export rules are now official

Biden Administration Adopts Rules to Guide A.I.’s Global Spread​

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The Biden administration issued sweeping rules on Monday governing how A.I. chips and models can be shared with foreign countries, in an attempt to set up a global framework that will guide how artificial intelligence spreads around the world in the years to come.

The companies will still have to agree to keep 75 percent of their total A.I. computing power within the United States or allied countries, and to locate no more than 7 percent of their computing power in any single other nation.

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The allies without restrictions include Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Republic of Korea, Spain, Sweden, Taiwan and the United Kingdom.

Users outside of these close allies could purchase up to 50,000 graphics processing units per country. There would also be government-to-government deals which could bump up the cap to 100,000 if their renewable energy and technological security goals are aligned with the United States.

Institutions in certain countries could also apply for a legal status that would let them purchase up to 320,000 advanced graphics processing units over two years. Still, there would be limits as to how much AI computational capacity could be placed abroad by companies and other institutions.

Also, computer chip orders equivalent to 1,700 advanced graphics processing units would not need a license to import or count against the national chip cap, among the other standards set by the framework. The exception for the 1,700 graphics processing units would likely help to meet the orders for universities and medical institutions, as opposed to data centers.

 

[3SonsAndaPhD]

.

Insane News !!

China's SMIC Destory TSMC's 28nm process !!

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The Massive 40% price cut competely wipes out TSMC's 28nm profit !!

TSMC use its 28nm profit to fund its advance node (2nm, 3nm, 4nm, 5nm) development. Now completely destroyed !!

 

[european_guy]

Biden's new AI export rules are now official

Biden Administration Adopts Rules to Guide A.I.’s Global Spread​

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This is the SIA statement on this last rule

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“We’re deeply disappointed that a policy shift of this magnitude and impact is being rushed out the door days before a presidential transition and without any meaningful input from industry. The new rule risks causing unintended and lasting damage to America’s economy and global competitiveness in semiconductors and AI by ceding strategic markets to our competitors. The stakes are high, and the timing is fraught. We stand ready to work with leaders in Washington to chart a path forward that protects national security while allowing us to do what America does best – compete and win globally.”

BTW rules will start during Trump administration, so it is not clear how it will end up....

Just less than one week before the end of their mandate...if this is not a desperate move I don't know what a desperate move is.

I will not regret this old administration, they come in power masquerading as peaceful sheep after the turbulent Trump 1 period....but they vastly demonstrated to be all but peaceful...and I'm not referring to semiconductors only.

Unfortunately the world today is a worst place than 4 years ago, and the Biden administration has a huge responsibility for it.

 

[Hyper]

There is already a loophole. The VEU list. Let's say you are AWS, azure or G42 and your are already on the list. You can import more gpu than the limit. And 50k is already more than the need of most countries. Buy GPU in one country and send they via mail to other countries. Though this will make cloud hyperscalers pretty much controlling GPU access in countries with export restrictions.

 

[Hyper]

Biden's new AI export rules are now official

Biden Administration Adopts Rules to Guide A.I.’s Global Spread​

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Reading this it looks like there are no restrictions if the company can get on the VEU list.